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Started By
Message
re: Amendment 40 Red Snapper Discussion
Posted on 8/28/14 at 6:51 pm to OntarioTiger
Posted on 8/28/14 at 6:51 pm to OntarioTiger
commercial interests have always run the Council. That is how the East Coast fisheries completely collapsed, which let us to Magnuson Moss and the mess that we're in today. The East Coast Council and the Gulf Coast Council have a store going always been the worst and managing fisheries. The Pacific Coast Council is full of environmentalists, but they seem to do a better job at balancing the interest of commercial fishermen versus those for recreational fishermen versus those of a sustainable fisheries.
2
Posted on 8/28/14 at 6:58 pm to TutHillTiger
Also, please don't go after charter boat captains who have supported this amendment. This mess is not their fault. They are simply trying to make a living with their backs against the wall.
After opposing this as loudly as possible at the last public hearing, the first thing I did was walk over to the orange beach fishermen wish them luck, tell them we don't blame them for what they're doing, and they should continue pushing for sector separation if they think it's the only way they can get by.
They are desperate, scared, backed into a corner and losing their arse. This is simply not their fault but is a carrot that is being offered to them by NOAA to prevent a lawsuit.
It's important that we be civil and supportive of our charter boat brothers. We have spent many years building a strong alliance with them, and it serves no one's interest but that of our commercial fishing enemies to allow that relationship to be broken now over this ridiculous sector separation.
As I have told them, I believe it is a shiny spoon full of hooks, and the mere fact that the environmental Defense foundation initially opposed this sector separation and advisory committee, and now is sending representatives all over the coast to fully supported it should make the charter boat representatives very nervous. ( if you didn't know EDF was one of the groups that sued us all that has resulted in this nine-day season) I fully expect them to file suit against NOAA and the charter boat associations as soon as the ink is dry on the separation deal, as a fair reading of the Magnuson Moss act probably does not support the Council making such a move.
Hence, you have a desperate group of individuals reaching out for the promise of fools gold. They would not have been in this position to begin with if it were not for the incompetence of NOAA and the council. It is not their fault.
After opposing this as loudly as possible at the last public hearing, the first thing I did was walk over to the orange beach fishermen wish them luck, tell them we don't blame them for what they're doing, and they should continue pushing for sector separation if they think it's the only way they can get by.
They are desperate, scared, backed into a corner and losing their arse. This is simply not their fault but is a carrot that is being offered to them by NOAA to prevent a lawsuit.
It's important that we be civil and supportive of our charter boat brothers. We have spent many years building a strong alliance with them, and it serves no one's interest but that of our commercial fishing enemies to allow that relationship to be broken now over this ridiculous sector separation.
As I have told them, I believe it is a shiny spoon full of hooks, and the mere fact that the environmental Defense foundation initially opposed this sector separation and advisory committee, and now is sending representatives all over the coast to fully supported it should make the charter boat representatives very nervous. ( if you didn't know EDF was one of the groups that sued us all that has resulted in this nine-day season) I fully expect them to file suit against NOAA and the charter boat associations as soon as the ink is dry on the separation deal, as a fair reading of the Magnuson Moss act probably does not support the Council making such a move.
Hence, you have a desperate group of individuals reaching out for the promise of fools gold. They would not have been in this position to begin with if it were not for the incompetence of NOAA and the council. It is not their fault.
Posted on 8/28/14 at 7:41 pm to TutHillTiger
quote:
commercial interests have always run the Council. That is how the East Coast fisheries completely collapsed,
AMEN!
i saw it first hand when i lived in fla
Posted on 8/28/14 at 7:48 pm to TutHillTiger
quote:
It's important that we be civil and supportive of our charter boat brothers.
Charter boats are basically commercial fisherman in my eyes. They sell their fish to the public and make money off of fishing.
Posted on 8/28/14 at 8:40 pm to JasonL79
quote:
Charter boats are basically commercial fisherman in my eyes. They sell their fish to the public and make money off of fishing.
true, but they and the traditional commercial guys have as much right to the water as us rec guys
Posted on 8/28/14 at 9:29 pm to Elusiveporpi
You're a retard. Being both a commercial snapper fisherman (long ago) and a rec snapper fisherman today, I totally see both sides, but when it comes down to it, I'd give it to the commercial guys that have been doing it for generations. Don't take a man's livelihood in exchange for your pleasure.
This post was edited on 8/28/14 at 9:30 pm
Posted on 8/28/14 at 9:35 pm to Sparkplug#1
That being said, there are plenty snapper for all.
Posted on 8/28/14 at 9:38 pm to Sparkplug#1
Agree, but everything I have read on this issue it is more about the means and methods of the population survey and catch surveys.
If the commercial guys don't push to have the surveys done properly In the end they will get screwed too.
If the commercial guys don't push to have the surveys done properly In the end they will get screwed too.
Posted on 8/28/14 at 9:45 pm to eng08
They Council is like Lucy and Charlie Brown and the football. they promise better data every year and they deliver nothing
Posted on 8/28/14 at 9:47 pm to eng08
Very true, but I beat my head against that wall a long time ago. It's like groundhog day, same shite different decade.
Why should they do it all? It's not like they are making a fortune. They struggle to just make a living, but I regress.
Why should they do it all? It's not like they are making a fortune. They struggle to just make a living, but I regress.
Posted on 8/28/14 at 10:18 pm to eng08
quote:
If the commercial guys don't push to have the surveys done properly In the end they will get screwed too.
If they are like another type of commercial fishermen I have familiarity with, they don't exactly keep good records nor want to. Until both sides unite and push for accurate data collection methods and quit the in-fighting nothing will ever change. It should be a fight against the feds and not a fight between recreational and commercial fishermen.
Posted on 8/28/14 at 10:20 pm to pointdog33
commercial and recs are like Israelis and Palestinians
Posted on 8/28/14 at 10:21 pm to mack the knife
quote:
true, but they and the traditional commercial guys have as much right to the water as us rec guys
Oh I agree with this more than anyone. There should be a shared fishery between all three groups on just about all species.
Posted on 8/28/14 at 10:25 pm to pointdog33
quote:
It should be a fight against the feds and not a fight between recreational and commercial fishermen.
This X a million. They would have much more power fighting together. But we will probably never see that. A lot of recreationals want to see commercials completely banned from fishing. This will only weaken their position against the federal government.
Same with hunting. Dog hunters vs stand hunters or compound bow hunters vs crossbow hunters. There is more power to work as a group than separate.
Posted on 8/28/14 at 10:27 pm to pointdog33
quote:
If they are like another type of commercial fishermen I have familiarity with, they don't exactly keep good records nor want to.
Commercial data is pretty regulated. Fisherman have to turn in trip tickets and the docks that buy their fish must also turn it in. They must match up also. A guy in the seafood business went to jail a few years ago for not reporting landings correctly.
Posted on 8/28/14 at 11:06 pm to JasonL79
...to the pound.
Posted on 8/29/14 at 7:39 am to Sparkplug#1
I know it probably doesn't matter but until they come off this bullshite I only eat seafood caught by myself or someone I know.
Posted on 8/29/14 at 8:03 am to tilco
quote:
I know it probably doesn't matter but until they come off this bullshite I only eat seafood caught by myself or someone I know.
amen. Unless it's salmon which no one I know catches around here.
Posted on 8/29/14 at 8:17 am to Motorboat
Catfish.
Posted on 8/29/14 at 8:17 am to JasonL79
quote:
Fisherman have to turn in trip tickets and the docks that buy their fish must also turn it in
I'm sure they are supposed to but it doesn't always happen. Any time an oil spill or disruption to the fishery of any size happens, the guys flock to make a claim against whatever company it is. The company then asks to see trip tickets and receipts.... crickets from the those making claims.
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