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Message
re: 70% of supermarket ground beef contains "pink slime"
Posted on 3/8/12 at 3:42 pm to Powerman
Posted on 3/8/12 at 3:42 pm to Powerman
quote:
That doesn't mean that BR is completely devoid of any food culture like the places in the midwest that I mentioned. That was my sticking point there.
No, but thank God I have NO DESIRE to live in such a wasteland of food as those areas are. You're right. BR is better than living in Kansas. There are however places in this country that do place more emphasis than BR does on food, places on either coast, in the Northwest, and Northeast as well. In our gulf coast region I suppose we aren't doing too bad though. I just don't think that's much of an accomplishment.
quote:
I'm not a pessimist like your old cranky arse.
If I were a pessimist, and didn't believe there were hope for BR in food, I honest to God wouldn't even bother posting.
Posted on 3/8/12 at 3:45 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
they do
they don't count towards the population of tigerdroppings, though
So, if they don't then what's to explain all of the threads going ape shite over chains coming to this city about by white "foodies"?
What's to explain all the chains located in white areas, and propped up by whites in this city if the black population is the reason we're so addicted to fast food?
Posted on 3/8/12 at 3:48 pm to MSMHater
I started buying all my ground chuck at the butcher shop down the street, where it is actually ground chuck.
When handling and eating it is a totally different product than the prepackaged grocery store mess. Made my wife and I like ground meat again.
When handling and eating it is a totally different product than the prepackaged grocery store mess. Made my wife and I like ground meat again.
Posted on 3/8/12 at 4:37 pm to Mike da Tigah
this Simbo guy sounds like a retard, is he a retard?
Posted on 3/8/12 at 7:57 pm to Mike da Tigah
quote:
What's to explain all the chains located in white areas, and propped up by whites in this city if the black population is the reason we're so addicted to fast food?
chains and fast food are 2 completely different things
Posted on 3/9/12 at 8:19 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
has anybody posted any definitive evidence that "pink slime"
1. affects the taste of foods; and
2. is in any way bad for you?
lawyer mode, engaged.
Posted on 3/9/12 at 8:53 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
that's kind of a silly argument, though
"pink slime" is just another boogeyman until objective, non-biased evidence comes out against it
You enjoy being a bit of a gadfly, don't you?
BTW, whether or not you can find a study on this specific item, they the frick would want to eat cheap filler shite when you can buy pure ground beef?
Posted on 3/9/12 at 8:59 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
SlowFlowPro
Question. What is your opinion on the existence, or not, of objective reality?
Posted on 3/9/12 at 11:40 am to TigerinATL
quote:
it’s pink, therefore it’s meat
quote:
That's the kind of logic that made Pizza a vegetable
And we want the government to be in control of our healthcare?????
Posted on 3/9/12 at 11:45 am to MSMHater
I used to cut meat for Winn Dixie and trust me, you want ground meat, get the butcher to grind a chuck roast or an eye of round (leaner). The ground meat on the shelf contains whatever gets shipped in those tubes which smells bad plus our trimmings for the day (tendons, fat, etc)
Posted on 3/9/12 at 11:46 am to VOR
Not surprisingly, ABC did a horrible job of explaining what is in this product and how its made. One of the guys I know from grad school here has a blog about meat in general but has written a post about this in particular. I would urge you all to read it to gain a better understanding of lean finely textured beef. The Meat of the Issues
Pieces like this count on an uneducated consumer who is so far removed from agriculture that they have no idea how we do things or why we do them and will sadly believe the slanderous things they see put out by other people who are also removed from ag.
In the last 50-60 years we have made huge advances in efficiency, health, and overall management to produce a safe, cheap, and wholesome product through the use of SCIENCE backed technologies and research. These have made us victims of our own success since a small percentage of us produce the food for everyone and we therefore deal we an often misinformed consumer. If you choose not to buy ground beef that has this in it that is perfectly fine, just don't do it due to an irresponsible newspiece.
Sorry for the length but this is somewhat of a touchy topic to me since animal agriculture (beef in particular) is where I make my living. I think it's unfortunate that in today's world of social media one "whistle blower" can give an entire industry a black eye by reporting fallacies while knowing the average consumer won't bother to check on things for themselves.
Pieces like this count on an uneducated consumer who is so far removed from agriculture that they have no idea how we do things or why we do them and will sadly believe the slanderous things they see put out by other people who are also removed from ag.
In the last 50-60 years we have made huge advances in efficiency, health, and overall management to produce a safe, cheap, and wholesome product through the use of SCIENCE backed technologies and research. These have made us victims of our own success since a small percentage of us produce the food for everyone and we therefore deal we an often misinformed consumer. If you choose not to buy ground beef that has this in it that is perfectly fine, just don't do it due to an irresponsible newspiece.
Sorry for the length but this is somewhat of a touchy topic to me since animal agriculture (beef in particular) is where I make my living. I think it's unfortunate that in today's world of social media one "whistle blower" can give an entire industry a black eye by reporting fallacies while knowing the average consumer won't bother to check on things for themselves.
Posted on 3/9/12 at 11:56 am to simbo
quote:
no kids would die from e-coli in a Happy Meal
Is this some kind of outbreak that I'm not hearing about? How many kids have died from happy meals because of e-coli?
I bet it isn't many, but you damn sure have a major health issue with half our population being overweight from eating shite all day.
That is far more of a concern to me than e-coli.
Posted on 3/9/12 at 12:05 pm to notiger1997
quote:
Is this some kind of outbreak that I'm not hearing about? How many kids have died from happy meals because of e-coli?
e-coli in food has killed a bunch of people dude. One kid dying from eating a hamburger is too many.....escpecially when we can stop it from happening.
Posted on 3/9/12 at 12:36 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
"pink slime" is just another boogeyman until objective, non-biased evidence comes out against it
you are so lame.
I don't want to eat nor pay for it no matter what the "objective" evidence may suggest
Posted on 3/9/12 at 12:58 pm to Rantavious
The fact is, some people just do not give a shite what they eat, as long as the FDA says it's ok, they're good with it.
Posted on 3/9/12 at 2:39 pm to AgGator
quote:
AgGator
Thanks for the input. I did read the blog post you linked. May I ask some questions, since you seem to be more in tuned with the industry than the rest of us?
1) Do you consider the "lean finely textured beef" to be a different product than the "fresh ground beef" it supplements, and if so, why would the industry object to appropriately labeling the percentage of each on an individual package?
quote:
this was a call for us to essentially put on a label that we are adding beef into our ground beef.
Well...yes. The post readily admits the LFTB is created through an interventional step in the process. The above statement seems to be saying that all "beef", no matter the processing, should be considered equal in the minds of the consumers as long as it falls within the legal processing guidelines of your industry. "Adding beef to our beef" seems oversimplified when considering that beef1 and beef2 are processed entirely in different ways. You don't see how that distinction may be important to some consumers, despite the relative (confirmed) safety of each product?
2) What was the primary motivation for developing this process in the first place?
My assumption is increased effeciency. Your industry wanting to make sure that you can feed as many people as possible with a finite resource. Which I, in theory, have no problem with. But it's just further processing of the product. It's another step away from acquiring the beef in it's purest form. The ammonia processing results from potential eColi infection. eColi infection results from corn based feed and living conditions. Corn based feed is utilized for increased muscle/fat yield (and corn subsidies, but thats another thread). Increased muscle/fat yield is neccessary due to production quantities and demand. All these steps were taken as a result of financial and economic realities. NOT to improve the quality of the product, but to more effeciently utilize the resources at your disposal. Am i far off in my assumtion?
quote:
In the last 50-60 years we have made huge advances in efficiency, health, and overall management to produce a safe, cheap, and wholesome product through the use of SCIENCE backed technologies and research. These have made us victims of our own success since a small percentage of us produce the food for everyone and we therefore deal we an often misinformed consumer.
I don't consider a consumer that desires a product different from yours to be "misinformed". In fact, the "misinformed" consumer is your primary base. Maybe not misinformed, but at least apathetic with regard to how th meat ends up in their refrigerator. For some people, the process matters. Thus i don't understand the resistance to identifying the process through appropriate labeling.
quote:
I think it's unfortunate that in today's world of social media one "whistle blower" can give an entire industry a black eye by reporting fallacies while knowing the average consumer won't bother to check on things for themselves.
Well, thats why we have places like this. To find people like you, and help us to become more informed.
3) Why do you think the TWO whistleblowers maintain the the product is a "substitute, not fresh ground beef"? While the blog you linked says
quote:
It is 100% wholesome, safe, real-meat beef.
Where is the disconnect between the two parties?
TIA for any answers. And if anything I wrote is completely ignorant, I have no doubt you'll let me know.
Posted on 3/9/12 at 3:21 pm to AgGator
quote:
Pieces like this count on an uneducated consumer who is so far removed from agriculture that they have no idea how we do things or why
The page you referenced and your post has a lot of good information. If you saw it, I'd like to know what you think about the piece in Food, Inc. showing the filler making process at BPI.
The only thought I have is that people need to be made aware of how things are made and processed so they can see for themselves. I didn't see the ABC story and I can read betrween the lines on movies such as Food, Inc. But ultimately, I don't see the issue with allowing the consumer to know exactly what they are consuming and let them decide for themselves.
Edit: I went out and watched the ABC piece. They can call it whistleblower and act like its new but I saw this 3 years ago in Food, Inc. They show the process in detail.
My point is, if people saw it being made they wouldn't want to eat it. This is not about watching the killing of a cow or anything. This is pieces and parts being mulched and sprayed....then used as filler. If people knew that they wouldn't want to eat it, safe or not.
And if its so safe and delicious, then no one should have a problem being shown or told what's in it. Just let people know and let them choose.
This post was edited on 3/9/12 at 3:44 pm
Posted on 3/9/12 at 4:03 pm to VOR
quote:
What is your opinion on the existence, or not, of objective reality?
objective reality exists
1 + 1 = 2, for instance
Posted on 3/9/12 at 4:04 pm to VOR
quote:
the frick would want to eat cheap filler shite when you can buy pure ground beef?
buying pure ground beef isn't illegal. people do it all the time in place of buying pink slime beef
Posted on 3/9/12 at 4:48 pm to simbo
I have never really figured out how to do the quotes thing so I will just try to go down the line and hopefully don't miss anything.
1) I personally don't have a problem with it not being included on the label but that might be more attributed to having an idea of where it originate from. It is the exact same as what is in the cut you grind yourself. When a carcass is being fabbed out you trim excess fat off of it. When you do this trimming you will also trim red meat as well since a human is doing it. Also when a bone is removed from a cut there is going to be some meat left on it for the same reason as the fat trim, no one can remove everything perfectly. It is from this that BPI's product comes. In the past we had no way of utilizing this so it went was just rendered with the fat. Now we have of way of separating it. I'm not a meat scientist so I hope I made that make sense.
As to why there would be resistance to not put it on the label, I think it would be the consumer thinking it undesirable because of lack of knowledge on what it is and where it comes from. This is the meat industries biggest weakness I feel. As a whole we are just starting to figure out ways of getting our viewpoint and facts out there. So I guess to wrap it up I have no problem with consumers not wanting to have it in their ground product. The one I worry about are those who don't understand the process or care enough to look it up but only see something they don't recognize and refuse it with no understanding that it is the same thing.
2) The reason for developing this process is the same as any other business decision and that is to make a profit. Packers operate on miniscule margins hence why they have become so large. The only way to make money is to operate on economies of scale. Often times the packer is losing money if you just look at the money made from the carcass we all think of. Where the margin is made is in the hide, offal, etc. So this process is one more way to add value to the carcass. As for the feeding of grain I'll just make a small comment. E. coli is something that has to be prevented in grass fed animals the same as in grain-fed ones. It is a worry in any ground product which is why we cook it all the way through unlike whole cuts. While it is more prevalent in the gut of a grain-fed animal the grass fed animals ground product would be ammoniated in the same way. I handle product from a local custom kill place much more cautiously than that from a big plant. The HAACP protocols at large facilities are very intense and small places are no comparison.
3) To sum it all up I have no problem with consumers not wanting to purchase ground product with finely textured beef. That is whats great about our industry is we can supply anything the consumer wants and they are free to choose. This is due to not producing the commodity product of old when everything was considered the same. My worry is with the consumer that doesn't know or care seeing that and thinking it unsafe or of less quality.
USDA employs hundreds of scientists many of whom have little knowledge of actual production, processing, etc. I am making an assumption here but I wouldn't doubt that those two would fall into this category. I don't doubt their legitimacy as scientists I would just be interested to see in what area they worked. The disconnect could simply be them, just like some of you, don't consider it as high quality and choose not to consume it. Where I do doubt them is they did not do an acceptable job of outlining the process, hence why I doubt their experience in this area. If there is one thing I have learned in grad school it is that just having a PhD does not make you qualified.
To simbo:
I think I covered your question in number 1 of this ridiculously long post. As to the portrayal in Food Inc I think it, just like the ABC news piece, left out the important details of how its done and where it comes from and incorrectly labels it "filler" when it is the same thing as hamburger. That and the industrial music combined to make it not very objective. In the end if consumers decide they don't want this in their food it will go away the same as rBST. It will just come with an associated rise in prices.
I think I covered everything but if you have any questions on welfare, medicine/hormone use let me know. I am always happy to share my perspective.
EDIT: here is a good link to an article by the AMI president
AMI Pres
1) I personally don't have a problem with it not being included on the label but that might be more attributed to having an idea of where it originate from. It is the exact same as what is in the cut you grind yourself. When a carcass is being fabbed out you trim excess fat off of it. When you do this trimming you will also trim red meat as well since a human is doing it. Also when a bone is removed from a cut there is going to be some meat left on it for the same reason as the fat trim, no one can remove everything perfectly. It is from this that BPI's product comes. In the past we had no way of utilizing this so it went was just rendered with the fat. Now we have of way of separating it. I'm not a meat scientist so I hope I made that make sense.
As to why there would be resistance to not put it on the label, I think it would be the consumer thinking it undesirable because of lack of knowledge on what it is and where it comes from. This is the meat industries biggest weakness I feel. As a whole we are just starting to figure out ways of getting our viewpoint and facts out there. So I guess to wrap it up I have no problem with consumers not wanting to have it in their ground product. The one I worry about are those who don't understand the process or care enough to look it up but only see something they don't recognize and refuse it with no understanding that it is the same thing.
2) The reason for developing this process is the same as any other business decision and that is to make a profit. Packers operate on miniscule margins hence why they have become so large. The only way to make money is to operate on economies of scale. Often times the packer is losing money if you just look at the money made from the carcass we all think of. Where the margin is made is in the hide, offal, etc. So this process is one more way to add value to the carcass. As for the feeding of grain I'll just make a small comment. E. coli is something that has to be prevented in grass fed animals the same as in grain-fed ones. It is a worry in any ground product which is why we cook it all the way through unlike whole cuts. While it is more prevalent in the gut of a grain-fed animal the grass fed animals ground product would be ammoniated in the same way. I handle product from a local custom kill place much more cautiously than that from a big plant. The HAACP protocols at large facilities are very intense and small places are no comparison.
3) To sum it all up I have no problem with consumers not wanting to purchase ground product with finely textured beef. That is whats great about our industry is we can supply anything the consumer wants and they are free to choose. This is due to not producing the commodity product of old when everything was considered the same. My worry is with the consumer that doesn't know or care seeing that and thinking it unsafe or of less quality.
USDA employs hundreds of scientists many of whom have little knowledge of actual production, processing, etc. I am making an assumption here but I wouldn't doubt that those two would fall into this category. I don't doubt their legitimacy as scientists I would just be interested to see in what area they worked. The disconnect could simply be them, just like some of you, don't consider it as high quality and choose not to consume it. Where I do doubt them is they did not do an acceptable job of outlining the process, hence why I doubt their experience in this area. If there is one thing I have learned in grad school it is that just having a PhD does not make you qualified.
To simbo:
I think I covered your question in number 1 of this ridiculously long post. As to the portrayal in Food Inc I think it, just like the ABC news piece, left out the important details of how its done and where it comes from and incorrectly labels it "filler" when it is the same thing as hamburger. That and the industrial music combined to make it not very objective. In the end if consumers decide they don't want this in their food it will go away the same as rBST. It will just come with an associated rise in prices.
I think I covered everything but if you have any questions on welfare, medicine/hormone use let me know. I am always happy to share my perspective.
EDIT: here is a good link to an article by the AMI president
AMI Pres
This post was edited on 3/9/12 at 4:58 pm
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