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re: Re It's "immoral" to strategically default on one's mortgage
Posted on 12/13/11 at 11:23 pm to Tiger JJ
Posted on 12/13/11 at 11:23 pm to Tiger JJ
This thread has been really enlightening. I can't believe all of the people that have issues with this presumed "moral obligation" for a collateralized loan.
I work in various relationships bound by contracts, joint ventures, etc. Each are governed by very specific set of parameters spelled out in the joint venture contract. Companies have the right to back out of the arrangement or to exercise various rights. "Fair" is not a relevant word when the agreement is spelled out and a party exercises their rights. That's why each of these points is discussed and negotiated in the contract, or alternatively some industry standard guidelines are adopted. It's business - if you don't like it, don't sign the contract. Be upfront and play by the rules, but protect your rights and assets as provided for in the contract. Your stakeholders (shareholders, company, family, etc.) should expect nothing less. Nor am I offended when other parties in the contracts and ventures defend their stakeholders in a similar manner.
Why is personal finance any different? Although I have never defaulted on any debt, I can understand and would encourage somebody in dire straits to do so. If the bank doesn't like it, they should provide themselves much more of a cushion by lending much less than the initial collateral value (while factoring in recourse/non-recourse in that state with associated costs and likelihood). Would there have been as much of a housing bubble if the banks had applied that common sense (ignoring FHA/Fannie/Freddie, of course)?
I work in various relationships bound by contracts, joint ventures, etc. Each are governed by very specific set of parameters spelled out in the joint venture contract. Companies have the right to back out of the arrangement or to exercise various rights. "Fair" is not a relevant word when the agreement is spelled out and a party exercises their rights. That's why each of these points is discussed and negotiated in the contract, or alternatively some industry standard guidelines are adopted. It's business - if you don't like it, don't sign the contract. Be upfront and play by the rules, but protect your rights and assets as provided for in the contract. Your stakeholders (shareholders, company, family, etc.) should expect nothing less. Nor am I offended when other parties in the contracts and ventures defend their stakeholders in a similar manner.
Why is personal finance any different? Although I have never defaulted on any debt, I can understand and would encourage somebody in dire straits to do so. If the bank doesn't like it, they should provide themselves much more of a cushion by lending much less than the initial collateral value (while factoring in recourse/non-recourse in that state with associated costs and likelihood). Would there have been as much of a housing bubble if the banks had applied that common sense (ignoring FHA/Fannie/Freddie, of course)?
Posted on 12/14/11 at 10:13 am to Bayou Tiger
(no message)
This post was edited on 1/5/12 at 2:48 pm
Posted on 12/14/11 at 11:09 am to Bayou Tiger
The original post compared strategic default on a collateralized obligation to declaring bankruptcy as a method to strategically default on non-ollateralized obligations. Going back to American Airlines and its bankruptcy, the question that I ask myself is what causes the least harm? Running American Airlines into the ground does not benefit anyone. It just delays the pain. If the company can be saved, then the damage to all parties can be reduced. The issue is how to spread the pain equitably.
Posted on 12/14/11 at 12:01 pm to Bayou Tiger
As I said earlier in this thread, I see both sides. But, this is not a complex concept, and yall are getting too detailed in your analysis.
At a basic human simple level, the right thing to do when you borrow money (no matter how much), is to pay it back in full. I think many of you are diving too deep into the contracs, complexities, collateral discussion, and details. Which is fine, but that's not what the OP asked you to do.
Moral vs Immoral is not a complex question, and does not need a complex analysis IMO.
Borrow money....Pay it Back. Period. If you don't do that, you've "gotten away with one" regardless of if you did it legally or not. If you don't pay back in full (regardless if the collateral covers the debt or not), then you have harmed someone else. That aint right. I don't care what the contract calls for, hurting someone else financially isn't right.
There are two different discussions going on:
1) Contractually-speaking, is it ok to walk away from your mortgage? The answer here is yes.
2) Ethically-speaking, is it ok to walk away from your mortgage? The answer here is no.
At a basic human simple level, the right thing to do when you borrow money (no matter how much), is to pay it back in full. I think many of you are diving too deep into the contracs, complexities, collateral discussion, and details. Which is fine, but that's not what the OP asked you to do.
Moral vs Immoral is not a complex question, and does not need a complex analysis IMO.
Borrow money....Pay it Back. Period. If you don't do that, you've "gotten away with one" regardless of if you did it legally or not. If you don't pay back in full (regardless if the collateral covers the debt or not), then you have harmed someone else. That aint right. I don't care what the contract calls for, hurting someone else financially isn't right.
There are two different discussions going on:
1) Contractually-speaking, is it ok to walk away from your mortgage? The answer here is yes.
2) Ethically-speaking, is it ok to walk away from your mortgage? The answer here is no.
This post was edited on 12/14/11 at 12:21 pm
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