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Started By
Message
re: Russia prolonging Ukraine war
Posted on 4/22/24 at 5:09 am to roadGator
Posted on 4/22/24 at 5:09 am to roadGator
quote:
He blowing through cheap artillery shells while we send billions.
I thought we were only sending our near expiration equipment and was needing the money to resupply or stock with newer equipment.
But in hindsight, a similar thing happened in the 1980’s, the USSR spent billions on Afghanistan in a stalemate/proxy war with America. Eventually, the USSR bankrupted itself and fell from within. I have a suspicion that Russia is trying the same policy to extend the conflict as long as possible to strain US military spending or to test the US military response.
Right now, it feels like an ongoing situation like Vietnam with no solution in sight but at least there are no US official boots on the ground.
There needs to be more talk of ending the stalemate instead of just throwing money and weapons at it.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 5:16 am to burke985
I believe this was the Bin Laden plan? We’ve been in a perpetual war since 1941.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 5:31 am to POTUS2024
quote:
I'm guessing that none of those numbers are accurate.
They had 4 operational awacs type aircraft. Ukraine shot down one. They have others that they harvest for parts at least one of those was hit and damaged in a drone attack. When these go down they have generals, majors, & lieutenants on them. They were built in soviet times and can't be produced anymore.
They have another type of aircraft that does command and control too but aren't nearly as capable as the ones with the big ole disk on it. 7-8 or so. A few of those have been shot down too. They have majors and lieutenants on them.
15% of Fighters is just what they have shot down. They have lost some more to stupid a** ridiculous mistakes. Six? Six? S-400's no way, way more. Not including the ones they have had to pull back out of range of battle. Back to the motherland to protect their refineries and factories.
Do you think The Institution for the Study of War is some liberal rag? Over and over again these numbers are replicated individually by different agencies. Ukraine's numbers they publish on equipment kills have been over and over proven reliable. The only somewhat questionable thing is Ukraine's claims of Russian casualties. Most outsiders run around 40-80 thousand less than their claimed 460,000 Russian casualties. With a caveat that it's "really hard to get casualties right but we are mostly in line with Ukraine's numbers".
It's like some people read some far one-sided leaning rag (propaganda) from a year ago and then think "Im guessing that crap I read a year ago is more likely to be right then up to date numbers", backed by multiple parties. . Wishful thinking isn't data.
It's a crazy world. Everything Russia says is true they never lie. Anything good to be said about Ukraine is fake news.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 5:53 am to Tarps99
quote:
I thought we were only sending our near expiration equipment and was needing the money to resupply or stock with newer equipment.
But in hindsight, a similar thing happened in the 1980’s, the USSR spent billions on Afghanistan in a stalemate/proxy war with America. Eventually, the USSR bankrupted itself and fell from within. I have a suspicion that Russia is trying the same policy to extend the conflict as long as possible to strain US military spending or to test the US military response.
Right now, it feels like an ongoing situation like Vietnam with no solution in sight but at least there are no US official boots on the ground.
There needs to be more talk of ending the stalemate instead of just throwing money and weapons at it.
What? This is not a real Take. Dishonest with yourself. Bankrupt the US over the Ukraine war? Not even worth getting into. Russia didn't go down because of Afghanistan in the slightest. Chornobyl really helped to do them in. If you think the US is going to have big issues with this war financially, how about the country that has collapsed 3 times last century? Who's ruble is worth 1.1 cents and is only going to get worse?
Afghanistan, Vietnam, No End in sight? If it's as bad as you say russia is soon to collapse any day now.
Your post reads like a how-to-do of how to defeat russia without losing a single American life. Let them fight a quagmire they are never going to win and fail financially amongst many other ways.
Come on seriously?
Posted on 4/22/24 at 5:57 am to burke985
Spring Offensive 2, Electric Bugaloo about to begin. Look for Zelensky to capture Moscow by June, worst case July. Sold my house and wired the funds straight to Ukraine. Putler must be stopped!!!!
Posted on 4/22/24 at 5:59 am to WonTonDonWon
quote:
It's like some people read some far one-sided leaning rag (propaganda) from a year ago and then think "Im guessing that crap I read a year ago is more likely to be right then up to date numbers", backed by multiple parties. . Wishful thinking isn't data.
It's a crazy world. Everything Russia says is true they never lie. Anything good to be said about Ukraine is fake news.
The problem is that you cannot trust any media outlet nowadays for fear of being propaganda on either side. Not many outlets have boots on the ground like in early days of the conflict. No one is reporting the Russian side accurately for fear of being labeled a propagandist for Putin or the fear of Putin kicking you out. Meanwhile on the other side of the pond, the US media reports the latest information from the Pentagon or the CIA as the Gospel.
This post was edited on 4/22/24 at 6:03 am
Posted on 4/22/24 at 6:05 am to lsufan1971
quote:
The US is just as responsible for prolonging this conflict. Our overlords haven’t funneled enough of our tax dollars back into their pockets yet.
We had US senators over there in the early 2010s trying to talk them into going to war with Russia. The US govt seemed to have wanted this war more than anybody.
It was Lindsey Graham and somwbody and few others. I can.find the video and post it.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 6:14 am to WonTonDonWon
quote:
Russia didn't go down because of Afghanistan in the slightest. Chornobyl really helped to do them in.
quote:
by WonTonDonWon
quote:
Number of Posts: 99 Registered on: 4/14/2024
This post was edited on 4/22/24 at 6:16 am
Posted on 4/22/24 at 6:20 am to jimmy the leg
File it under “they’ll say anything”. Russia is doing to the US what the US did to Russia circa 1984 - goading us into militarily spending ourselves into bankruptcy.
$101,000 debt per citizen
$312,000 debt per employed citizen
$625,000 debt per federal income taxpayer
$101,000 debt per citizen
$312,000 debt per employed citizen
$625,000 debt per federal income taxpayer
Posted on 4/22/24 at 6:35 am to WonTonDonWon
Sounds like they are in bad shape, but Russia is a threat to conquer Europe and $61b just prevented that??
This post was edited on 4/22/24 at 9:19 am
Posted on 4/22/24 at 6:42 am to loogaroo
quote:
but Russia is a threat to conquer Europe
Posted on 4/22/24 at 7:34 am to Scoob
quote:
Russia is getting to work some of the flab out of their military.
If by "working the flab out" you mean losing 400,000 men, depleting their ammunition stocks to the point that they're begging the Norks for artillery shells, and bringing tanks from the 1950's to the front because of their losses, then you're right.
quote:
And just to keep perspective, hitting Ukraine is a bigger target than anything we've done.
It's been over 2 years and Russia only controls a small part of southeastern Ukraine. Plus, Russia is on a complete war footing. We've been involved in many wars over the last 80 years, but the U.S. hasn't been on a true war footing since WW2.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 8:03 am to Tantal
Russian integrated Command and Control structure leaves something to be desired as does their logistic philosophy which is along the lines of Push logistics. which is probably why they are out on the market hitting up North Korea and Iran and begging the ChiComs.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 8:04 am to GnashRebel
quote:
This is absurd. Do you have any idea how expensive it is for Russia to fight this war?
Go on, tell us how expensive it is
Posted on 4/22/24 at 8:09 am to OccamsStubble
quote:
goading us into militarily spending ourselves into bankruptcy.
Y'all need to understand math.
This Ukraine spending will have nothing to do with our "bankruptcy", if that eventuality occurs.
Our bankruptcy would be caused by spending in the trillions, not tens of billions. Ukraine spending is a rounding error on our actual spending programs creating the debt.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 9:18 am to Damone
quote:
quote:but Russia is a threat to conquer Europe
What’s so funny? That’s what they are all telling us. They are saying we have to fund Ukraine because Putin wants to march across Europe.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 9:20 am to roadGator
quote:
Putin is much smarter than all of them.
Yeah the 350k casualties are genius
Ruined economy (was never that great before)
Invaded in Ukraine in 2014 and still no where near capitol
Ya'll just keep pulling for losers
He did snatch some kids from Ukraine...congrats
Posted on 4/22/24 at 9:22 am to WonTonDonWon
quote:
Do you think The Institution for the Study of War is some liberal rag?
Yes
Posted on 4/22/24 at 2:49 pm to Tantal
quote:Well... yeah. Loss of numbers is high, but Russia infamously has both numbers, and a generally poorly trained and equipped military.quote:
Russia is getting to work some of the flab out of their military.
If by "working the flab out" you mean losing 400,000 men, depleting their ammunition stocks to the point that they're begging the Norks for artillery shells, and bringing tanks from the 1950's to the front because of their losses, then you're right.
They're burning through stockpiles of munitions and gear they've had for decades, instead of scrapping those or selling them all to other countries/militia. None of that stuff would be any good as frontline gear against the US or NATO anyway, but they're using it up instead of leaving it in warehouses until it's just piles of rust and sawdust.
Loss of personnel- they don't view things the way we do in the West. These are simply pawns, useful cannon fodder. Their doctrine would be to have heavy losses in a real conflict, but win through attrition.
They are getting in real live combat now, and weeding out a lot of filler, as well as establishing what strategies and tactics work and what doesn't. And they are doing so in a conflict they may not "win", but absolutely won't lose actual Russian territory no matter what. The worst that can happen is Ukraine holds out, and they withdraw; the Ukrainians aren't going to march into Russia.
And the Russians, as they come out the other end of this, will have a lot more skilled and capable military, and will end up being better equipped in a few years.
quote:quote:
And just to keep perspective, hitting Ukraine is a bigger target than anything we've done.
It's been over 2 years and Russia only controls a small part of southeastern Ukraine.
People need to keep perspective on just what this conflict is.
When someone says "first world, third world" etc, that goes back to a Cold War POV.
First World is US, Western Europe and similar countries. NATO (and Japan, etc) for lack of a better term.
Third World is all the little shithole countries a major power could kick over without much effort.
SECOND WORLD is the Soviet sphere; Russia, the Warsaw Pact, probably China. MAYBE North Korea, if you count China.
Ukraine is Second World, as is Russia. This is like-on-like, separated mostly by total resources. A good comparison would be if Texas had left the United States in the 1990's, and we now have the US invading Texas today. The US would win in a fully committed war, because the US has more resources and manpower. But like we're seeing in Ukraine, it would be a hell of a fight and very contested, up until the smaller country runs out of resources.
The US has NOT faced anything of the sort since WW2. Kicking Panama's, Iraq's or Afganistan's teeth in, is not comparable. Deploying to Korea in the 50's while China was still in disarray, or Vietnam later, is not the same. And even with Korea, when the Chinese got involved, we'd do well man-for-man, but the ratio of US to Chinese troops created a disparity we couldn't overcome.
Posted on 4/22/24 at 5:26 pm to Scoob
quote:
People need to keep perspective on just what this conflict is.
Don't hold your breath. We have slapdicks here that actually think that this is about Nazis and the good Christian Putin trying to protect Mother Russia from queers and trannies.
This is a war for geography, not ideology. If Russia wants to survive they believe that they have to secure the geographic blocking positions leading to their lands. That means the Polish Gap and Bessarabian Gap, which also means Poland and Romania. Even the entirety of Ukraine doesn't get them what they need.
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