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re: I hate snakes (bit 2 of my dogs) update - vengeance
Posted on 3/26/24 at 8:51 am to Fe_Mike
Posted on 3/26/24 at 8:51 am to Fe_Mike
Having seen Mocs and timbers being milked - the bigger the snake - more venom. and in my experience with bird dogs and people a reflex bite is more likely to be dry. Guy goose hunting with me in 1989 grabbed a moc and first bite was dry but he tried to get a better grip and second bite was not.
dogs I have known or actually seen get bit when the dog tries to bite snake - venom is coming.
the juvenile venom myth is second only to the "they can't bite under water myth"..... how they catch fish?
dogs I have known or actually seen get bit when the dog tries to bite snake - venom is coming.
the juvenile venom myth is second only to the "they can't bite under water myth"..... how they catch fish?
This post was edited on 3/26/24 at 9:01 am
Posted on 3/26/24 at 8:59 am to choupiquesushi
GSP was bitten on the front paw and he of course is much bigger and actually showed symptoms of a snake bite.
The Yorkie was bitten above his elbow on the front leg and he showed zero symptoms. No blood, no foaming at the mouth, nothing. He came inside and laid in bed, which is pretty normal for him. Saw he had rapid breathing a bit later and took him straight to the vet.
He was bruised pretty bad when I left around 10. When the wife got there at 2 to call it he was pretty much bruised neck to tail and his skin was starting to blister.
Very odd behavior for a snake bite the vet said, if brother dog hadn't been bit earlier he wouldn't have even thought to treat for a snake bite. His blood was clotting so much he couldn't even get blood to run labs. Just too much venom for our little dude, or we just didn't get him in time.
The Yorkie was bitten above his elbow on the front leg and he showed zero symptoms. No blood, no foaming at the mouth, nothing. He came inside and laid in bed, which is pretty normal for him. Saw he had rapid breathing a bit later and took him straight to the vet.
He was bruised pretty bad when I left around 10. When the wife got there at 2 to call it he was pretty much bruised neck to tail and his skin was starting to blister.
Very odd behavior for a snake bite the vet said, if brother dog hadn't been bit earlier he wouldn't have even thought to treat for a snake bite. His blood was clotting so much he couldn't even get blood to run labs. Just too much venom for our little dude, or we just didn't get him in time.
Posted on 3/26/24 at 9:07 am to BoogaBear
If it gave that much venom to two dogs that ain't a juvenile no way!
I think the smaller dogs kidneys get in trouble fast with big doses and they get dehydrated very quickly.
They won't drink once they start reeling, you need to force them water - early and often - I keep a big syringe in my hunting and training bag just for this.
There is also a boomerang effect on the kidney 1-3 weeks after the bite especially in older dogs - keep that gsp hydrated.
copperhead that bit mine still eluding me 4 years later.
and if you live where Timbers live - I'd wager it was a timber not a mocassin - their stuff is bad medicine on dogs for some reason.
I think the smaller dogs kidneys get in trouble fast with big doses and they get dehydrated very quickly.
They won't drink once they start reeling, you need to force them water - early and often - I keep a big syringe in my hunting and training bag just for this.
There is also a boomerang effect on the kidney 1-3 weeks after the bite especially in older dogs - keep that gsp hydrated.
copperhead that bit mine still eluding me 4 years later.
and if you live where Timbers live - I'd wager it was a timber not a mocassin - their stuff is bad medicine on dogs for some reason.
This post was edited on 3/26/24 at 9:09 am
Posted on 3/26/24 at 9:10 am to choupiquesushi
First vet for GSP said adult snake based on the fang marks. Emergency vet said 2 puncture wounds on the yorkie, that looked like a small snake. Wonder if the yorkie got bit twice with just 1 fang or something.
We do have timbers, and have had a dog bitten by one before. I lean toward moccasin since it was down by the pond.
We do have timbers, and have had a dog bitten by one before. I lean toward moccasin since it was down by the pond.
This post was edited on 3/26/24 at 9:21 am
Posted on 3/26/24 at 9:17 am to BoogaBear
Sorry to hear all this.
I have two shih tzu's in the Gonzales area and I've seen snakes in my yard, so I need to do a better job looking out for them.
I have two shih tzu's in the Gonzales area and I've seen snakes in my yard, so I need to do a better job looking out for them.
Posted on 3/26/24 at 9:20 am to 75503Tiger
quote:
had a pair of murderous Jack Russells. They cornered a copperhead and with incredible teamwork the male grabbed that snake and shook it until the head of the snake came off. I had no idea those dogs could do that.
Have a good friend who has a Jack Russell. That is absolutely the most lovable little guy in the world. But, I have seen him literally tear a possum to pieces. Two minutes later, he’s the most lovable little guy in the world again…with the biggest sense of accomplishment smile on his face !
Posted on 3/26/24 at 9:22 am to BuckyCheese
quote:
Yeah, I can kinda see Cobra anti venom being pricey here just for the rarity of it's use. I mean if I got bit by one might as well buy the casket as they aren't going to have that juice at the local hospital.
You should go look for one
Posted on 3/26/24 at 9:23 am to Fe_Mike
quote:
If you get a hot bite, it's better to come from a juvenile because their venom glands are smaller.
If they decide to use it, snakes don't moderate venom use. It's like cops and guns. They don't shoot unless they're ready to kill, and if that's the case, they empty the mag. Adult snakes know that their venom isn't likely to kill a human fast enough to be useful defense, so they're believed to be less inclined to use it and just issue a dry 'warning' bite. But if it does envenomate, it's using as much as it can.
The myth likely stems from juveniles being more inclined to use venom at all, thus dry bites are more common from adults and seemingly 'less potent'.
I read a paper/article/whatever not long ago on different types of bites and why dry bites happen so often. Researchers have found that venom production is a really high energy process for the snake. It takes considerably more energy for the snake to produce venom than initially thought. So, if you think about a big, mature snake and the large glands (and relative amount of venom) it has, you can see why venom conservation would play a big role.
Your point about humans not being viewed as prey is important, too. They're not going to waste that venom with a defensive bite on non-prey animals. That same study also tried to parse out the venom control question. Some species seemed to have more control than others, but the deciding factor is mainly the duration of the bite, and of course, whether it was a single bite or multiple bites. You also have the fact that some snakes are just prone to bite more than once.
It is interesting that it doesn't seem to be just a hardwired reaction, there's more nuance to it than traditionally believed.
Posted on 3/26/24 at 9:28 am to Fe_Mike
quote:
Fe_Mike
I just had one of those moments
I’ve always read your name as F-E-MIKE
It just randomly clicked in my head that it’s IRON MIKE
Carry on. Have a great day
This post was edited on 3/26/24 at 9:28 am
Posted on 3/26/24 at 9:30 am to BoogaBear
Friend had a pit that loved to kill snakes. Water moccasins bit her, she shook it off.
Posted on 3/26/24 at 9:34 am to BoogaBear
Sorry for your loss. Its dogs doing dog shite, and sometimes it comes back to bite them, no pun intended. Had a friend get hit by a copperhead a few years ago cleaning his watermelon field. He went to the hospital, and they gave him some Benadryl and kept him there for a few hours to observe the bite. Sent him home and told him if it swells anymore to come back. Well, it did, and he went back, and the hospital staff said it's too late to administer anti venom. Seems there is a time window for anti-venom, and on top of that they didn't even have any anti-venom meds. They told him to go to another hospital an hour away for better treatment. WTF.
This post was edited on 3/26/24 at 9:40 am
Posted on 3/26/24 at 9:35 am to BoogaBear
Our little frenchie got bit on the head by a baby copperhead and it messed him up there for a while. Was definitely a pricey vet bill but he pulled through.
Hope your little guy makes it out ok!
Edit: just saw he didn't make. So sorry man. I'm sure he was a good boy and you got lots of good memories with him, just try and think about those.
Hope your little guy makes it out ok!
Edit: just saw he didn't make. So sorry man. I'm sure he was a good boy and you got lots of good memories with him, just try and think about those.
This post was edited on 3/26/24 at 9:37 am
Posted on 3/26/24 at 9:35 am to prplhze2000
I always hear about dogs shaking it and handling certain bites well. Our boys clearly were not doing well.
Posted on 3/26/24 at 9:37 am to Sevensblue
quote:
Nah invest in some mongooses
Wouldn’t that be mongeese?
Posted on 3/26/24 at 9:39 am to XenScott
Believe it or not, it’s actually mongí (pronounced mun-guy)
Posted on 3/26/24 at 9:47 am to BoogaBear
shite! That sucks!
R.I.P. to the pond that is about to be set on fire.
R.I.P. to the pond that is about to be set on fire.
Posted on 3/26/24 at 9:50 am to prplhze2000
quote:
Friend had a pit that loved to kill snakes. Water moccasins bit her, she shook it off.
I wonder if the dog breed plays a part? Growing up a buddy had a catahoula cur dog. Saw it take a moccasin bite and smile, kill the snake, and seem mostly unaffected. But it was an outside dog so it may have taken one before.
Posted on 3/26/24 at 10:31 am to BoogaBear
Check in the morning hours after the sun is out and it’s starting to heat up. Cottonmouths like to bask in the sun this time of year - the water is still a bit cool so they need to bring their body temperature up. In the spring they often bask away from the water’s edge too - I find plenty of mine 10-20 feet away from the water this time of year. Whereas in the heat of summer I catch most at the water’s edge.
Posted on 3/26/24 at 10:56 am to BoogaBear
Every dog I have ever had get bit was treated with Benadryl. Never had a yorkie though.
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