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Started By
Message
Is the some kind of fungus going around?
Posted on 4/30/22 at 3:20 pm
Posted on 4/30/22 at 3:20 pm
We are into first of May, I don't remember a time when so many courses have such awful greens.
In the Houston area we are having warm nights which should help the grass grow.
I'm wondering if the courses cut corners with the maintenance program.
In the Houston area we are having warm nights which should help the grass grow.
I'm wondering if the courses cut corners with the maintenance program.
Posted on 4/30/22 at 3:23 pm to bopper50
Above average poaannua, below average temps equals trouble.
Posted on 4/30/22 at 8:15 pm to bopper50
quote:
some kind of fungus
The fungus is among us…
Posted on 5/1/22 at 10:30 am to bopper50
So this may be tl:dr, but here’s my $0.02
As an assistant super/superintendent for basically my entire working career, I’ve seen a lot of changes in golf over the last 24 years. From the “Tiger” boom in the late 90’s, early 00’s to the pandemic just recently, with a whole lotta stuff in between. The one thing that has remained consistent throughout that time though, is that we, as golf course superintendents, are constantly and consistently trying to provide as quality conditions as we possibly can. Some years are definitely more challenging due to uncontrollable forces, (weather, disease, insect infestations, budgets, lack of play due to economic variables, pricing of materials-consider 2008 when gas was prices were at all time highs and fertilizer prices were through the roof, etc…the list could go on). That is not, however, meant to be an excuse, just stating that there are often things beyond our control as agronomists which we have to learn from and adapt to to make things better in the golf course.
Agronomy is the study of crop science, so think of our “crop” as turfgrass. Farmers of corn, soybean, cotton, rice, sugarcane, etc, all know that one uncontrolled event can have devastating consequences to their crop and could potentially lead to catastrophic failure. Much in the same way, one or two uncontrolled events and/or a mistimed/inappropriate chemical application could lead to a catastrophic failure on the golf course. It’s simply my opinion, but we as superintendents push that line every day. The margins for error are razor thin…that which is good for golf is bad for turf, and that which is good for turf, is bad for golf. (Think greens heights, raising the height of cut from .125” to .15” could mean slower greens, but healthier turf, likewise, lowering heights from .125” to .110”, double cutting and double rolling everyday could lead to intensely fast greens, but incredibly unhealthy, thin turf) With the push by golfers for better and better conditions, we often do things that push that line further and further into the “red zone” which could have disastrous consequences. Don’t get me wrong, I love taking my putter out and putting on a green rolling smoothly and swiftly as much as anybody, but, maintaining greens to roll consistently at 11 or 12 on the stimpmeter (only used in reference…have one, don’t use it…most inappropriately used item in golf course maintenance) can be a challenging thing. Obviously the type of grass that is on the greens, the inputs over the course of time, the ability to do the things to the turf to promote healthy growth of both the shoots and the roots (verticutting, topdressing, aerification, etc) can all have huge impacts on the quality of turf. I can’t speak for all superintendents, but I know I am constantly having to adapt and change to the ever changing environments around us. Some days are definitely better than others. Some seasons are definitely better than others. But I can assure you, we toe that line day in and day out to try to provide golfers the best conditions we can.
As to your question, is it a fungus? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Could be a myriad of issues. Soils could be off a little bit. Ph’s too high or too low could lead to inefficient use of the nutrients available in the soil. Could be a newer strain of a disease that hasn’t been seen (new ones develop over time…cream leaf spot for example). Trying EVERYTHING in the book to control poa (which has become increasingly more difficult as it has developed resistance to even some of the newer technologies). Pushing that boundary can have a hugely negative effect on the greens as we literally do things that we would’ve never done before to keep from having such an issue coming out of dormancy and into the growing season. I know I’ve made several different applications of different chemicals, both as pre-emergents and post-emergents, and I still find myself with a fork in hand popping out poa plants that have resisted. I would love to be able to tell you it’s one certain thing, but there is so much that goes into maintaining a golf course, in particular, the greens, that it would be hard to pinpoint. I wish there was a magic “cure-all” and everything would be perfect and greens always rolled 13 and the fairways were perfectly smooth and the rough never grew above 1 1/2” and no golfers ever saw anybody out maintaining the golf course, but unfortunately, we don’t live in that world. It is, however, somewhat satisfying when we as superintendents, do figure out what’s going on with our courses and can implement our knowledge and abilities to make things as best as they can be.
Probably didn’t answer your question, but know that the majority of us (I’m sure there are always the outliers) are doing everything we can within our means to provide as good playing conditions that are possible given whatever set of circumstances each superintendent is facing.
Thanks for reading. Thanks for continuing to play.
I know….”holy wall of text, Batman…”
Edited to add…
We know when conditions aren’t the greatest, and I would say that most of us are very frustrated when that happens. We want our courses to be “Augusta National” during Masters week as much as anybody else. We wouldn’t put in countless hours doing work if we didn’t.
As an assistant super/superintendent for basically my entire working career, I’ve seen a lot of changes in golf over the last 24 years. From the “Tiger” boom in the late 90’s, early 00’s to the pandemic just recently, with a whole lotta stuff in between. The one thing that has remained consistent throughout that time though, is that we, as golf course superintendents, are constantly and consistently trying to provide as quality conditions as we possibly can. Some years are definitely more challenging due to uncontrollable forces, (weather, disease, insect infestations, budgets, lack of play due to economic variables, pricing of materials-consider 2008 when gas was prices were at all time highs and fertilizer prices were through the roof, etc…the list could go on). That is not, however, meant to be an excuse, just stating that there are often things beyond our control as agronomists which we have to learn from and adapt to to make things better in the golf course.
Agronomy is the study of crop science, so think of our “crop” as turfgrass. Farmers of corn, soybean, cotton, rice, sugarcane, etc, all know that one uncontrolled event can have devastating consequences to their crop and could potentially lead to catastrophic failure. Much in the same way, one or two uncontrolled events and/or a mistimed/inappropriate chemical application could lead to a catastrophic failure on the golf course. It’s simply my opinion, but we as superintendents push that line every day. The margins for error are razor thin…that which is good for golf is bad for turf, and that which is good for turf, is bad for golf. (Think greens heights, raising the height of cut from .125” to .15” could mean slower greens, but healthier turf, likewise, lowering heights from .125” to .110”, double cutting and double rolling everyday could lead to intensely fast greens, but incredibly unhealthy, thin turf) With the push by golfers for better and better conditions, we often do things that push that line further and further into the “red zone” which could have disastrous consequences. Don’t get me wrong, I love taking my putter out and putting on a green rolling smoothly and swiftly as much as anybody, but, maintaining greens to roll consistently at 11 or 12 on the stimpmeter (only used in reference…have one, don’t use it…most inappropriately used item in golf course maintenance) can be a challenging thing. Obviously the type of grass that is on the greens, the inputs over the course of time, the ability to do the things to the turf to promote healthy growth of both the shoots and the roots (verticutting, topdressing, aerification, etc) can all have huge impacts on the quality of turf. I can’t speak for all superintendents, but I know I am constantly having to adapt and change to the ever changing environments around us. Some days are definitely better than others. Some seasons are definitely better than others. But I can assure you, we toe that line day in and day out to try to provide golfers the best conditions we can.
As to your question, is it a fungus? Perhaps. Perhaps not. Could be a myriad of issues. Soils could be off a little bit. Ph’s too high or too low could lead to inefficient use of the nutrients available in the soil. Could be a newer strain of a disease that hasn’t been seen (new ones develop over time…cream leaf spot for example). Trying EVERYTHING in the book to control poa (which has become increasingly more difficult as it has developed resistance to even some of the newer technologies). Pushing that boundary can have a hugely negative effect on the greens as we literally do things that we would’ve never done before to keep from having such an issue coming out of dormancy and into the growing season. I know I’ve made several different applications of different chemicals, both as pre-emergents and post-emergents, and I still find myself with a fork in hand popping out poa plants that have resisted. I would love to be able to tell you it’s one certain thing, but there is so much that goes into maintaining a golf course, in particular, the greens, that it would be hard to pinpoint. I wish there was a magic “cure-all” and everything would be perfect and greens always rolled 13 and the fairways were perfectly smooth and the rough never grew above 1 1/2” and no golfers ever saw anybody out maintaining the golf course, but unfortunately, we don’t live in that world. It is, however, somewhat satisfying when we as superintendents, do figure out what’s going on with our courses and can implement our knowledge and abilities to make things as best as they can be.
Probably didn’t answer your question, but know that the majority of us (I’m sure there are always the outliers) are doing everything we can within our means to provide as good playing conditions that are possible given whatever set of circumstances each superintendent is facing.
Thanks for reading. Thanks for continuing to play.
I know….”holy wall of text, Batman…”
Edited to add…
We know when conditions aren’t the greatest, and I would say that most of us are very frustrated when that happens. We want our courses to be “Augusta National” during Masters week as much as anybody else. We wouldn’t put in countless hours doing work if we didn’t.
This post was edited on 5/1/22 at 10:52 am
Posted on 5/1/22 at 11:08 am to bopper50
I’m not going to attempt to get into a big explanation like the poster above me, because frankly I don’t know shite.
However, I believe the ask the super thread has mentioned multiple times that the current strain of poa everyone is dealing with has become resistant to herbicides so they are fighting that. I imagine Houston, Lake Charles, Lafayette, Baton Rouge, and New Orleans are all dealing with the same thing given the similar climates.
However, I believe the ask the super thread has mentioned multiple times that the current strain of poa everyone is dealing with has become resistant to herbicides so they are fighting that. I imagine Houston, Lake Charles, Lafayette, Baton Rouge, and New Orleans are all dealing with the same thing given the similar climates.
Posted on 5/1/22 at 11:09 am to tigermaniac
Seems like every green in Dallas is covered in some kind of fungus or crab grass looking stuff, maybe that’s poa?
I’m assuming the below average temps are contributing since it’s EVERY muni basically. I’m thinking once temperatures rise it’ll kill it? I don’t know
I’m assuming the below average temps are contributing since it’s EVERY muni basically. I’m thinking once temperatures rise it’ll kill it? I don’t know
Posted on 5/1/22 at 12:35 pm to Tiger1242
Two different things. If it’s fungus you’re speaking of, I would suggest that it could be algae from thinning turf. Happens when it’s wet and the turf has thinned out from the winter time.
And if it is a grassy weed at this point in the year, it’s more than likely poa that is producing a seed head and causing issues. Generally, crabgrass is probably just now showing itself in the Dallas area as it is a warm season annual grassy weed. Poa is a cool season annual and while you see it slowly emerge over the winter, the spring like conditions are ideal for growth and reproduction, thus the bajillions of seed heads. Eventually, as it warms up, it will die out. But depending on the weather, I’ve seen it stick around until June sometimes. If it’s rainy and moderately cool in May, it could stick around. If it’s warm and dry it’ll go away quicker. Sometimes verticutting and scalping can help remove it quicker. Although, that should be reserved for a very severe case of poa infestation.
And if it is a grassy weed at this point in the year, it’s more than likely poa that is producing a seed head and causing issues. Generally, crabgrass is probably just now showing itself in the Dallas area as it is a warm season annual grassy weed. Poa is a cool season annual and while you see it slowly emerge over the winter, the spring like conditions are ideal for growth and reproduction, thus the bajillions of seed heads. Eventually, as it warms up, it will die out. But depending on the weather, I’ve seen it stick around until June sometimes. If it’s rainy and moderately cool in May, it could stick around. If it’s warm and dry it’ll go away quicker. Sometimes verticutting and scalping can help remove it quicker. Although, that should be reserved for a very severe case of poa infestation.
Posted on 5/1/22 at 7:28 pm to tigermaniac
Thanks for the detailed response
I’ve got no idea what it is but like I said it seems to be impacting every muni in Dallas so I’m assuming there isn’t much they can do about it.
Hopefully it will be gone soon
I’ve got no idea what it is but like I said it seems to be impacting every muni in Dallas so I’m assuming there isn’t much they can do about it.
Hopefully it will be gone soon
Posted on 5/1/22 at 8:54 pm to tigermaniac
I just want to say thank you for taking the time and effort to post that.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 11:01 am to tigermaniac
quote:
tigermaniac
As bmoney said, this was a great read, thanks. People like yourself are what make this great game a reality
Posted on 5/2/22 at 5:18 pm to 904
Thanks guys (gals, perhaps? Don’t want to exclude our lovely ladies)
I enjoy, “talking turf”. Don’t ever hesitate to ask a question. I’ll do my darnedest to answer.
I enjoy, “talking turf”. Don’t ever hesitate to ask a question. I’ll do my darnedest to answer.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 8:48 pm to tigermaniac
TM,
What you favorite grass to work with on the greens ?
I'm a fan of Mini Verde and the Saltwater & Drought tolerate grass (Can't remember the name)
I seem to see a lot of issues with Champions grass greens.
What you favorite grass to work with on the greens ?
I'm a fan of Mini Verde and the Saltwater & Drought tolerate grass (Can't remember the name)
I seem to see a lot of issues with Champions grass greens.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 9:03 pm to tigermaniac
Have you been fitted for a backpack sprayer?
Posted on 5/2/22 at 10:15 pm to bopper50
Having to find other ways to stop Poa has led some courses to burn their greens. Shouldnt take long to heal up.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 10:34 pm to bopper50
bopper
I’ve worked on tifdwarf, champion and mini-verde. They each have their own sets of pro’s and con’s. I can appreciate the ease of maintenance of tifdwarf greens. They’ll never be as slick or roll as good as the ultra dwarfs, but with some decent maintenance practices, they can be a pretty decent putting surface (it’s amazing what a growth regulator and a good bit of rolling can do.)
Of the ultra dwarfs, I think Champion probably makes the best overall putting surface. It’s quite vigorous, dense and can handle some pretty low mowing heights and lots of double cutting and rolling. They do, however, get quite grainy and can get really thatchy if not properly maintained and can lead to a lot of scalping.
Mini-verde is pretty good. It’s what I’m currently working on. It’s still a bit of a learning process with this grass and figuring out what it can and can’t do and what it can and can’t tolerate.
Not really sure I have a favorite…but if I could take the ease of maintenance of tifdwarf, with the slick putting surface of champion all coupled with the challenge of mini-verde, then I’d be happy.
I’ve worked on tifdwarf, champion and mini-verde. They each have their own sets of pro’s and con’s. I can appreciate the ease of maintenance of tifdwarf greens. They’ll never be as slick or roll as good as the ultra dwarfs, but with some decent maintenance practices, they can be a pretty decent putting surface (it’s amazing what a growth regulator and a good bit of rolling can do.)
Of the ultra dwarfs, I think Champion probably makes the best overall putting surface. It’s quite vigorous, dense and can handle some pretty low mowing heights and lots of double cutting and rolling. They do, however, get quite grainy and can get really thatchy if not properly maintained and can lead to a lot of scalping.
Mini-verde is pretty good. It’s what I’m currently working on. It’s still a bit of a learning process with this grass and figuring out what it can and can’t do and what it can and can’t tolerate.
Not really sure I have a favorite…but if I could take the ease of maintenance of tifdwarf, with the slick putting surface of champion all coupled with the challenge of mini-verde, then I’d be happy.
Posted on 5/2/22 at 10:39 pm to Tyga Woods
Tyga
Absolutely. You know how heavy those things get when full? Nobody wants to be walking around with a poor fitting backpack sprayer.
That’d be like Paige walking around in a muumuu. Nobody wants to see that.
Absolutely. You know how heavy those things get when full? Nobody wants to be walking around with a poor fitting backpack sprayer.
That’d be like Paige walking around in a muumuu. Nobody wants to see that.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 9:13 pm to tigermaniac
TM,
Thanks for the through reply and your knowledge.
I guess that I like Mini Verde because when I was on a Board, it was easier to take care of on a limited budget.
Champions is a great putting surface like you said. I've seen a lot of courses like Southwyck in Pearland struggling to maintain it.
* I don't get why people down vote legitimate questions. Must be low self esteem individuals.
Thanks for the through reply and your knowledge.
I guess that I like Mini Verde because when I was on a Board, it was easier to take care of on a limited budget.
Champions is a great putting surface like you said. I've seen a lot of courses like Southwyck in Pearland struggling to maintain it.
* I don't get why people down vote legitimate questions. Must be low self esteem individuals.
Posted on 5/3/22 at 9:45 pm to tigermaniac
quote:
So this may be tl:dr, but here’s my $0.02
Was more like $3.50 worth
But thank you for what you do.
Posted on 5/4/22 at 8:23 am to bopper50
quote:
What you favorite grass to work with on the greens ?
don't vote out Tif Eagle. BEst Bermuda putting surface I have had to work with. I have had 3 courses w/ mini verde, 2 with Dwarf, and one Tif Eagle. I like what I can do with Eagle. Mini verde doesn't recover near as fast. Dwarf is definitly easier. Eagle is the only one that doesn't mutate, but will get grainy if not maintained properly.
Posted on 5/4/22 at 8:47 am to leblanc272
Is anyone putting down Tif Eagle theses days ?
I love Tif Eagle but is seems like a lot of courses have moved on from it.
I remember that they installed Mini Verde at Thrash Park in Sulphur 10 years ago. Wonder how it's still doing ?
I love Tif Eagle but is seems like a lot of courses have moved on from it.
I remember that they installed Mini Verde at Thrash Park in Sulphur 10 years ago. Wonder how it's still doing ?
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