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re: Why are european clubs so quick to fire managers?
Posted on 5/26/15 at 3:40 pm to RTR America
Posted on 5/26/15 at 3:40 pm to RTR America
quote:
Dear God
You´re not grasping this, are you?
Randy says only the major cities in Europe produce winners.
You said the market size drop off from NYC/LA to Oakland/Cleveland is comparatively bigger, and that both Oakland and Cleveland are contenders.
I politely informed you that a side from a market HALF the size of Cleveland, and which suffers a LARGER market dropoff from London, HAS BEEN THE CHAMPION, and you answer with this little nugget of deep insight.........
This post was edited on 5/26/15 at 3:42 pm
0
Posted on 5/26/15 at 3:41 pm to RandySavage
quote:
I'm arguing that whether you love it or hate it it provides for more mediocrity
FTFY
Posted on 5/26/15 at 3:47 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
As we've shown, that just isn't true in Europe.
Damn, am I in the twilight zone? You guys are just trolling at this point right? What in the world do you think you've shown to prove this false?
Posted on 5/26/15 at 3:49 pm to RandySavage
quote:
Damn, am I in the twilight zone? You guys are just trolling at this point right? What in the world do you think you've shown to prove this false?
We've cited a bunch of small to medium sized European markets that have had recent success in Europe.
Posted on 5/26/15 at 3:50 pm to RandySavage
quote:
I'm not concerned about why in this thread just making the obvious and easy point that it's a fact
Of course you're not concerned about why.
Because the "why" is the only reason Chelsea was suddenly able to be a contender in England and Europe. It has nothing to do with the size of London.
Posted on 5/26/15 at 3:55 pm to RandySavage
quote:
Damn, am I in the twilight zone? You guys are just trolling at this point right? What in the world do you think you've shown to prove this false?
You may be in the psychiatric ward. Even a commie franchise system has not produced a champion from say, Oakland or Cleveland.
You´ve stated that the commie franchise system produces mid market champions on the regular, and therefore, is far superior to a European capitalistic system, as only the sides from the big markets win.
Porto, which is half the size of Cleveland, and less than half the size of Oakland, has been CHAMPION in a framework with a greater population (read market) disparity. Said framework you asserted, fully impedes what Porto acheived from occurring (which is quite obviously not the case).
This post was edited on 5/26/15 at 3:57 pm
Posted on 5/26/15 at 3:56 pm to nvasil1
quote:
The Galacticos were already around
The Galacticos were such a huge deal because it was so rare for a club to spend like that.
quote:
Porto knocked out a certain club owned by Roman Abramovich in the CL semi.
Abramovich had owned Chelsea for less than a year.
quote:
You said in another thread once that was when the "big money era" began for you.
Yes, I do think that's when it began. However it didn't totally change the culture of European football in 9 months.
Why do you think Porto is the last team such to achieve what they were able to?
Posted on 5/26/15 at 3:58 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
We've cited a bunch of small to medium sized European markets that have had recent success in Europe.
You cited Porto and Dortmund. Neither have won Europe in over a decade. Turin doesn't even count. You're trying to use outliers to prove a point which I know you are smarter than.
You're acting like the tard college football fans who justify their crappy recruiting classes by pointing out that not every 5 star is an All American and bringing up that one 2 star they had a few years ago who ended up being really good.
Posted on 5/26/15 at 4:00 pm to nvasil1
quote:
Of course you're not concerned about why.
Because the "why" is the only reason Chelsea was suddenly able to be a contender in England and Europe. It has nothing to do with the size of London.
That isn't a burn to me. Unlike most other fans I fully acknowledge that our ability to spend money is the catalyst for our success. That is the norm in Europe now and the only viable way to consistently compete.
The fact Chelsea is in London is the reason someone like Roman wanted to buy there though, so there is that.
You don't see a lot of foreign billionaires lining up to buy Udinese, Bradford, Rennes, or Almeria.
Posted on 5/26/15 at 4:02 pm to Dandy Lion
quote:
Even a commie franchise system has not produced a champion from say, Oakland
Oakland has many titles in its history.
quote:
Porto, which is half the size of Cleveland, and less than half the size of Oakland, has been CHAMPION in a framework with a greater population (read market) disparity
Again, outlier from a different era when talking about Europe. Domestically they are in the second biggest market. The more you say Porto the more you prove my point.
This post was edited on 5/26/15 at 4:03 pm
Posted on 5/26/15 at 4:02 pm to RandySavage
We don't even need to go all the way down to Dortmund or Porto to make the point (and they definitely do count lol)
Barcelona is the 16th largest city in Europe. Munich is the 17th. Milan is the 19th. Manchester is not even listed in the top 33, nor is Liverpool:
LINK
Barcelona is the 16th largest city in Europe. Munich is the 17th. Milan is the 19th. Manchester is not even listed in the top 33, nor is Liverpool:
LINK
Posted on 5/26/15 at 4:05 pm to RandySavage
quote:
Why do you think Porto is the last team such to achieve what they were able to?
Because the Bosman ruling allowed Abramovich to buy Mourinho and 2 of his best players from Porto. It also allowed him to buy Drogba, Cech and Robben. All of this in one summer.
Posted on 5/26/15 at 4:06 pm to nvasil1
Exactly, so we agree.
Posted on 5/26/15 at 4:07 pm to RandySavage
quote:
Exactly, so we agree.
So your argument is literally "it's better because we restrict worker rights more here"
Posted on 5/26/15 at 4:08 pm to RandySavage
so im guessing this catapulted into a FFP shitfest
Posted on 5/26/15 at 4:09 pm to Draconian Sanctions
Mercy. Here is my first post on the issue in response to you asking if I thought the Euro system was terrible.
Read the last snippet. I said the CL makes the European setup possible. Even granting that allowance you still you have to be a club in an elite (top 4) market from and elite football (top 5) nation to compete.
Domestically, which was obviously stated as the main issue, the system is completely broken though.
quote:
In some ways yes. The only teams that ever win are teams from the biggest cities.
London, Munich, Barcelona, Milan, Liverpool, Manchester, Rome, Madrid, Lisbon, Porto, Amsterdam, now Paris...
These are all the biggest cities in their respective countries among major soccer nations.
It would get really old when LA and NY won 90% of American sports titles (except maybe hockey but most of the country doesn't care about that).
It works for Europe because of the CL/Europa setup that they are able to provide that would not be an option in the United States.
Read the last snippet. I said the CL makes the European setup possible. Even granting that allowance you still you have to be a club in an elite (top 4) market from and elite football (top 5) nation to compete.
Domestically, which was obviously stated as the main issue, the system is completely broken though.
Posted on 5/26/15 at 4:09 pm to Draconian Sanctions
quote:
So your argument is literally "it's better because we restrict worker rights more here"
I don't think you understand what quotes mean. However, by all means try to save that burning ship by putting words into my mouth.
I clearly stated one is free to an opinion on which is "better" or right. However, the ability of one approach to foster a more even level of competition is beyond dispute.
This post was edited on 5/26/15 at 4:12 pm
Posted on 5/26/15 at 4:10 pm to RandySavage
quote:
Domestically they are in the second biggest market. The more you say Porto the more you prove my point.
The CL is not domestic.
Anyway, I stated that winning your domestic league, or competing for it, is not unlike winning your division/conference, in the US. They (Porto) compete for the title regularly, in a region/division/conference which does not exist in the US (even the NFL´s North division has markets bigger than Lisbon, let alone Porto which is one third the size of some of these regional or outlier cities which you say compete and win championships regularly, due to the franchise system).
Posted on 5/26/15 at 4:14 pm to RandySavage
quote:
That isn't a burn to me. Unlike most other fans I fully acknowledge that our ability to spend money is the catalyst for our success. That is the norm in Europe now and the only viable way to consistently compete.
So if you're acknowledging money is the answer, then what do the arguments about market size and parity have to with anything?
quote:
The fact Chelsea is in London is the reason someone like Roman wanted to buy there though, so there is that.
Maybe. It's a great city. He also could have flipped a coin to choose where he wanted to buy for all we know.
quote:
You don't see a lot of foreign billionaires lining up to buy Udinese, Bradford, Rennes, or Almeria
Yet they could if they wanted.
Posted on 5/26/15 at 4:14 pm to RandySavage
quote:
Domestically, which was obviously stated as the main issue, the system is completely broken though.
You can't compare the US setup to any European country individually. they simply can't support the same kind of structure and are predisposed to being dominated by the large cities because individually they all only have 2 or 3 cities that are big enough to support a world class club. The United States has 10-15 of those sized cities.
There's just no way to do it even if we agreed it would be preferable (which we don't)
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