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re: Title IX the reason the USA is a women's but not a men's power...

Posted on 7/6/15 at 9:26 am to
Posted by St Augustine
The Pauper of the Surf
Member since Mar 2006
64083 posts
Posted on 7/6/15 at 9:26 am to
You got either your troll/unbelievably ignorant thread to go 6 pages... congrats.
This post was edited on 7/6/15 at 9:27 am
Posted by 5thTiger
Member since Nov 2014
7996 posts
Posted on 7/6/15 at 9:44 am to
quote:

Most youth leagues are paid for by the parents of the children playing in it. And why would they do that if there is no future for their boys? What's to entice those boys to keep playing? Another level of play maybe?


More TV and visibility..like other sports. also...you seem to assume that mens soccer=womens soccer.....which is no where close to the truth.

The US culture in general gives women more opportunities than other countries. Title IX is just one of many factors as to why our USWNT is the gold standard.

While I would like to see more college programs for men AS A RESULT of the sport becoming more popular, it isn't going to happen the other way around. College soccer won't lead to an increase in popularity.

The best thing we can do is get these academies and competitive youth leagues going. Keeping kids involved and improving technical understanding of the game.

It is all about visibility and viability. Kids don't see players on TV as much as the NBA or NFL. THAT is what is holding our mens team back.

Posted by pvilleguru
Member since Jun 2009
60453 posts
Posted on 7/6/15 at 9:48 am to
quote:

Kids don't see players on TV as much as the NBA or NFL

That is starting to change. You can find soccer on TV just about any day of the week these days.
Posted by dgnx6
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
68391 posts
Posted on 7/6/15 at 9:56 am to
quote:

It's absolutely ridiculous to think you can wait until college to start receiving and participating in training to make you world class. It would be so detrimental.


Soccer is the easiest sport to play, the hardest to play well.
Posted by Bluefin
The Banana Stand
Member since Apr 2011
13253 posts
Posted on 7/6/15 at 9:59 am to
quote:

That is starting to change. You can find soccer on TV just about any day of the week these days.

Add in the popularity of the FIFA games, and kids are far more exposed to the sport nowadays than we were growing up.
Posted by dgnx6
Baton Rouge
Member since Feb 2006
68391 posts
Posted on 7/6/15 at 10:02 am to
If anything, college soccer could help grow the MLS even more. But they need to be able to play year round like the other sports. I think you can get a following to men's teams in the south. Title ix was a good thing, but that shouldn't limit the number of men's sports anymore. I doubt a school like LSU would just dump the female athletics program if title ix went away.
Posted by DoreonthePlains
Auburn, AL
Member since Nov 2013
7436 posts
Posted on 7/6/15 at 10:10 am to
quote:

Most youth leagues are paid for by the parents of the children playing in it. And why would they do that if there is no future for their boys?


Here's the problem. You're too busy looking from college soccer down to the youngest player. You need to look from MLS down with college soccer not in the picture. Other countries are not pay to play clubs. The clubs cover expenses for players.
Posted by 5thTiger
Member since Nov 2014
7996 posts
Posted on 7/6/15 at 10:13 am to
quote:

If anything, college soccer could help grow the MLS even more. But they need to be able to play year round like the other sports. I think you can get a following to men's teams in the south. Title ix was a good thing, but that shouldn't limit the number of men's sports anymore. I doubt a school like LSU would just dump the female athletics program if title ix went away


Title IX isn't going away, so lets throw that out. MLS growth will have nothing to do with college soccer outside of getting a few players. The MLS will need to grow by getting recognizable stars, both from the US and abroad. Stars (typically) don't come through college, they come through youth academies. I count 6 players on the USMNT roster of the WC who played in college. Most of them were in the pros before the MLS set up their academies. Yedlin played a year in college, but attributes his success to the Sounder academy. Omar Gonzalez played for a few years, but none of the other young players played in college. The best players will play minimal college soccer, if at all.
Posted by pvilleguru
Member since Jun 2009
60453 posts
Posted on 7/6/15 at 10:21 am to
MLS would do itself some good if it would quit bringing in so many aging players. Stop with the Pirlos, Gerrards, etc. Try to get some young South American players with the hopes of selling them to Europe in a few years. Give kids the idea that you can use the MLS to get to better things.
Posted by TigersOfGeauxld
Just across the water...
Member since Aug 2009
25057 posts
Posted on 7/6/15 at 10:27 am to
quote:

While I would like to see more college programs for men AS A RESULT of the sport becoming more popular, it isn't going to happen the other way around.


Except that's exactly how it happened for women's soccer. Namely, the "other way around". Title IX led to more women's programs at the college level. Which, in turn, led to more high school programs. Which, in turn, led to more young girls playing at the grammar school level. That's not me talking, the process is well-documented.

quote:

It is all about visibility and viability. Kids don't see players on TV as much as the NBA or NFL. THAT is what is holding our mens team back.


Hello, you don't just wave your magic wand and make that happen. This isn't Hogwarts. You need a grassroots campaign to get more youths to choose soccer at a young age.

The average soccer player in this country grows up watching the vast majority of his peers playing other organized sports. I'd bet most of his school friends don't even play, and have never played.

So what happens in this country of 300 million plus inhabitants is that our men's team struggles to beat countries a tenth of our population where soccer is a way of life from an early age.

At this time there are 206 NCAA Division I men's soccer programs in the US vs. 328 women's programs.

Title IX is the premier reason why women's soccer exploded in this country. It all started at the college level and trickled down from there. Just as I've been saying.

In the 2014 World Cup, the USA was eliminated from the tournament 2-1 by Belgium...a nation of 11 million people.

Because Belgium has a bigger pool of soccer talent in that 11 million than the USA has in 318 million.

Nothing more than a flood of youngsters choosing to play the sport in organized competition, across this country, and not just in the current hotbeds, will ever change that.
Posted by LNCHBOX
70448
Member since Jun 2009
84055 posts
Posted on 7/6/15 at 10:29 am to
quote:

Except that's exactly how it happened for women's soccer.


Let's try this one last time.



Women's game =/= Men's game. Please let it sink in,
Posted by pvilleguru
Member since Jun 2009
60453 posts
Posted on 7/6/15 at 10:31 am to
Get it through your head that the men's and women's game have nothing in common. You can't use one as a blueprint for the other. Yes, our women played in college, but the rest of the world wasn't playing ANYWHERE.
Posted by TigersOfGeauxld
Just across the water...
Member since Aug 2009
25057 posts
Posted on 7/6/15 at 10:35 am to
quote:

college


Again, it's not about our men PLAYING in college. It's about our men PLAYING at all.

Repeat, in the vast hopes that maybe this time, it percolates through thick skulls...

Title IX increased the number of women playing soccer. A similar investment in men's programs would hopefully lead to a similar return in the amount of youngster playing soccer AT A YOUNG AGE.

Jeez...
Posted by LNCHBOX
70448
Member since Jun 2009
84055 posts
Posted on 7/6/15 at 10:38 am to
quote:

A similar investment in men's programs would hopefully lead to a similar return in the amount of youngster playing soccer AT A YOUNG AGE.


Repeating again. College programs will not make that happen.
Posted by TigersOfGeauxld
Just across the water...
Member since Aug 2009
25057 posts
Posted on 7/6/15 at 10:40 am to
quote:

College programs will not make that happen.


It did for women. The whole process is well-documented. More women are playing soccer today as a direct result of more colleges offering soccer programs.
Posted by LNCHBOX
70448
Member since Jun 2009
84055 posts
Posted on 7/6/15 at 10:43 am to
quote:

It did for women.


Women =/= Men. We covered this a million times.
Posted by pvilleguru
Member since Jun 2009
60453 posts
Posted on 7/6/15 at 10:44 am to
They are playing at a young age and there are more options for them to play than there has ever been. With Klinsmann's leadership, it will only get better. There has been many options, but it has always been pretty unorganized with little input from the USSF. I don't see soccer ever being the #1 choice for the majority of our best athletes. The key is to locate the kids that have promise and get them into a good academy. We are getting better at that.
Posted by TFTC
Chicago, Il
Member since May 2010
22266 posts
Posted on 7/6/15 at 10:48 am to
I don't think college soccer would help advance the men's game...

And while I think we can match up athletically with most teams, by and large, our best athletes do not play soccer in this country...
Posted by TigersOfGeauxld
Just across the water...
Member since Aug 2009
25057 posts
Posted on 7/6/15 at 10:49 am to
quote:

Women =/= Men. We covered this a million times.


No, you failed to see the truth a million times.

quote:

Advocates of Title IX's current interpretation cite increases in female athletic participation, and attribute those increases to Title IX.[43][44][45] One study, completed in 2006, pointed to a large increase in the number of women participating in athletics at both the high school and college level. The number of women in high school sports had increased by a factor of nine, while the number of women in college sports had increased by more than 450%

-Title IX Athletic Statistics". American Association of University Women.


A huge increase in the amount of women played soccer in high school as a direct result of Title IX.

Men's soccer in this country would similarly benefit if a similar huge increase in the amount of of our young men were playing at the high school level. And that won't happen without more men's programs at the college level.



This post was edited on 7/6/15 at 10:56 am
Posted by 5thTiger
Member since Nov 2014
7996 posts
Posted on 7/6/15 at 10:55 am to
quote:

A huge increase in the amount of women played soccer in high school as a direct result of Title IX.


So we need a Title IX for men? That is your argument. Womens college soccer didn't cause Title IX. It was a result of Title IX. Assuming women=men (which isn't the case, but for sake of argument), your logic points back to Title IX...not to college soccer.
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