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Let's talk about "The Dark Side of American Soccer Culture"
Posted on 7/14/16 at 9:28 am
Posted on 7/14/16 at 9:28 am
I'm referencing this article by former Grantland guy Jay Caspian Kang
LINK
Basically, Kang went to a Sounders match and didn't like what he saw, and then writes about racism in other soccer cultures and how that influences America.
An excerpt:
Another gem:
I've not been to a single MLS match, but as a writer, I found this piece to be a crock of shite. There's a lot of inferring and projecting and very little research, interviewing, or actual leg work.
I enjoyed Don Garber's response:
Honestly, there may be a racial issue in American soccer fandom. I don't know. I don't think there is, any more than there's a racial problem in general in America, and I actually think American soccer has less of a racial problem than, say, SEC football fandom.
I know on this board there's a lot of Mexico hate, but I don't know if that's racial as much as it's just because they're our rival.
And to me, this article undermines any argument of racism in American soccer fandom because it starts from that point and never deviates, never considers anything else.
FYI: Other Jay Caspian Kang titles include
"The Unbearable Whiteness of Baseball"
"White Reporter Privilege"
"Serial and the White Liberal Media's Race Problem"
His Twitter mentions are pretty funny. I'd love to hear from some non white dudes on what they think of this, but I imagine mostly everyone who posts here is a white dude.
LINK
Basically, Kang went to a Sounders match and didn't like what he saw, and then writes about racism in other soccer cultures and how that influences America.
An excerpt:
quote:
There are now two separate American soccer cultures: one white, the other Latino. And while some of the Europhilia can be attributed to the relative newness of American soccer fandom (traditions, I suppose, have to start somewhere), it’s worth asking why soccer fans in a country with millions of immigrants from soccer-crazed countries in Central and South America would look so longingly toward Western Europe, or why the American media’s coverage of soccer culture, however scant, focuses on soccer bars in gentrified Brooklyn and fan organizations in majority-white cities like Portland, Ore., and Seattle.
Another gem:
quote:
There is nothing wrong about borrowing what you love, but it should be called what it is — a dream of an ultimately monochromatic gathering in which thousands of white men can brawl (but safely and without guns!) in the streets and drunkenly sing Phil Collins melodies in pubs, lending a hooligan snarl to a white, suburban culture.
I've not been to a single MLS match, but as a writer, I found this piece to be a crock of shite. There's a lot of inferring and projecting and very little research, interviewing, or actual leg work.
I enjoyed Don Garber's response:
quote:
“Like unfortunately things can be with the media, it was poorly reported, factually incorrect and irresponsible, with a lack of any research whatsoever,” Garber said. “Frankly, something like this should never see the light of day…” “This was not some blog. This was The New York Times. They know better,” Garber said. “What empowers me is to see the guy getting scorched in social media, because this is just not representative of good journalism.”
Honestly, there may be a racial issue in American soccer fandom. I don't know. I don't think there is, any more than there's a racial problem in general in America, and I actually think American soccer has less of a racial problem than, say, SEC football fandom.
I know on this board there's a lot of Mexico hate, but I don't know if that's racial as much as it's just because they're our rival.
And to me, this article undermines any argument of racism in American soccer fandom because it starts from that point and never deviates, never considers anything else.
FYI: Other Jay Caspian Kang titles include
"The Unbearable Whiteness of Baseball"
"White Reporter Privilege"
"Serial and the White Liberal Media's Race Problem"
His Twitter mentions are pretty funny. I'd love to hear from some non white dudes on what they think of this, but I imagine mostly everyone who posts here is a white dude.
This post was edited on 7/14/16 at 10:42 am
Posted on 7/14/16 at 9:31 am to Stewie Griffin
I mean, I just don't know many black guys who give a single shite about soccer.
This "journalist" is obviously nothing more than a racebaiting troll
This "journalist" is obviously nothing more than a racebaiting troll
This post was edited on 7/14/16 at 9:32 am
Posted on 7/14/16 at 9:37 am to Stewie Griffin
quote:
I know on this board there's a lot of Mexico hate, but I don't know if that's racial as much as it's just because they're our rival.
Put any color person in a Mexico jersey and I will hate them all the same.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 9:37 am to Stewie Griffin
It was a pretty terrible article.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 9:45 am to Stewie Griffin
NYT;dr
It's a rag. Not surprisingly they published this libelous garbage.
It's a rag. Not surprisingly they published this libelous garbage.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 9:51 am to Stewie Griffin
I did agree with some of his premise about American soccer culture being directly tied to white guys who watch the Premier League and listen to Men In Blazers. The Latino soccer culture in America, which is more massive, does get overlooked in media coverage.
But you can't call the white soccer culture racist and leave it at that without pointing out the obvious flaws in the Latino culture he seems to be praising. That one definitely has racist/nationalist/homophobic issues. He didn't even give specific examples of those problems in his story. He just compared it to a culture that is.
Connecting the odd song the ECS sang with violence in Marseille is just wrong. Did he see a brawl? Did he hear someone attacking other fans with racial slurs? I didn't get that point at all.
By the way, you quoted the same part twice. What was the other part you wanted to highlight?
But you can't call the white soccer culture racist and leave it at that without pointing out the obvious flaws in the Latino culture he seems to be praising. That one definitely has racist/nationalist/homophobic issues. He didn't even give specific examples of those problems in his story. He just compared it to a culture that is.
Connecting the odd song the ECS sang with violence in Marseille is just wrong. Did he see a brawl? Did he hear someone attacking other fans with racial slurs? I didn't get that point at all.
By the way, you quoted the same part twice. What was the other part you wanted to highlight?
This post was edited on 7/14/16 at 9:54 am
Posted on 7/14/16 at 9:53 am to EastNastySwag
quote:
NYT;dr
quote:
It's a rag. Not surprisingly they published this libelous garbage.
So did you actually read it?
Posted on 7/14/16 at 9:55 am to WarSlamEagle
Lived in NYC long enough to know that NYT is not even a credible news source. Highly irresponsible journalism and I don't even click on their links.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 10:07 am to Stewie Griffin
Speaking as a Dynamo fan, I think the separation between the white and Latino fans has a very simply reason: language. It's difficult to get into the chants when you don't actually know what words they are saying. Our largest "ultra" group is El Battalion. They do some cool things, but virtually all of the things they do are in Spanish.
I really think language is the main reason the EPL is so big. Yeah, there are plenty of English broadcasts of the Bundesliga and La Liga, but I can't immerse myself in it completely. If I turn on the EPL, everything I see and hear, for the most part, I can understand.
I really think language is the main reason the EPL is so big. Yeah, there are plenty of English broadcasts of the Bundesliga and La Liga, but I can't immerse myself in it completely. If I turn on the EPL, everything I see and hear, for the most part, I can understand.
This post was edited on 7/14/16 at 10:08 am
Posted on 7/14/16 at 10:14 am to DestrehanTiger
quote:
I really think language is the main reason the EPL is so big.
It definitely is. That's why it's the most popular league in many parts of the world. And I've met EPL fans over here from Africa, the Middle East and South America. While EPL fandom in the U.S. can be lily white in some places, it isn't always.
But, like Caplewood said, not a lot of black Americans are into soccer. Mexicans and other Latin Americans come together over El Tri, Liga MX and even La Liga. That's how these fanbases can appear monolithic, and it's an easy (and lazy) step from there to call the culture racist.
This post was edited on 7/14/16 at 10:20 am
Posted on 7/14/16 at 10:29 am to Stewie Griffin
So a super liberal, white-hating Asian SJW writes nonsense about white people in the US liking soccer in a more European rather than Hispanic way, implies it's racist, and the NYT allows it? Why am I not surprised.
I'm not going to bother reading the article. NYT puts out so much trash these days. This guy is just trying to stir the pot and take advantage of the current cultural climate that has unfortunately swallowed this country whole.
I'm not going to bother reading the article. NYT puts out so much trash these days. This guy is just trying to stir the pot and take advantage of the current cultural climate that has unfortunately swallowed this country whole.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 10:44 am to WarSlamEagle
quote:
By the way, you quoted the same part twice. What was the other part you wanted to highlight?
Edited. Les Miles distracted me with his wizardry in Hoover.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 10:46 am to Stewie Griffin
quote:
Les Miles distracted me with his wizardry in Hoover.
Put some more
space
in-between
your
words.
This post was edited on 7/14/16 at 10:47 am
Posted on 7/14/16 at 10:46 am to Stewie Griffin
quote:
drunkenly sing Phil Collins melodies
BUNCH OF PUSSIES
Posted on 7/14/16 at 10:53 am to Stewie Griffin
Mexican isn't a race.
Hanging out with people similar to you isn't racist.
White people's experience of life is no less legitimate than anyone else's.
Hanging out with people similar to you isn't racist.
White people's experience of life is no less legitimate than anyone else's.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 11:22 am to Stewie Griffin
quote:
"The Dark Side of American Soccer Culture"
sore-losers turning off their Xbox prior to the match ending?
Posted on 7/14/16 at 11:22 am to Stewie Griffin
LOL @ this.
A solid 50% of Sounders fans are likely Bernie voters who would weep and volunteer to self immolate if you accused them of cultural appropriation. How regressive.
I like how it doesn't occur to him to ask why the immigrants from Central and South America stay loyal to their own countries and teams instead of adopting the soccer practices of lily-white soccer fans in the US (USMNT, MLS).
These fricking people
A solid 50% of Sounders fans are likely Bernie voters who would weep and volunteer to self immolate if you accused them of cultural appropriation. How regressive.
I like how it doesn't occur to him to ask why the immigrants from Central and South America stay loyal to their own countries and teams instead of adopting the soccer practices of lily-white soccer fans in the US (USMNT, MLS).
These fricking people
Posted on 7/14/16 at 11:42 am to Stewie Griffin
If Mexican fans didn't throw piss bottles and crap like that I'd probably be more inclined to follow their traditions.
However, I'd rather get punched by a hooligan in a scarf than be covered in piss.
However, I'd rather get punched by a hooligan in a scarf than be covered in piss.
Posted on 7/14/16 at 11:56 am to Pettifogger
quote:
I like how it doesn't occur to him to ask why the immigrants from Central and South America stay loyal to their own countries and teams instead of adopting the soccer practices of lily-white soccer fans in the US (USMNT, MLS
I think we should let people do what they want within reason. White Sounders fans don't need writers for the NYT or anyone else to permit or approve of their behavior, and neither do Latinos.
Frick all that
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