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re: Jurgen says NO to GMO

Posted on 4/29/15 at 10:49 pm to
Posted by Broski
Member since Jun 2011
70770 posts
Posted on 4/29/15 at 10:49 pm to
quote:

But what is the excuse for the long periods of poor play and the general tactical shittyness? We were promised an upgrade to Bobball, but what we've gotten is Bobball-lite where we suck at defending and suck at counter attacking.


Oh I agree, I made a thread about that very problem not too long ago.

People like to think Jurgen has overhauled the tactics, yet we're still controlling pace against the CONCACAF minnows and still bunkering (i.e. relying on Timmy) against the tier II team's (Belgium, Ghana, etc.).
Posted by Sheep
Neither here nor there
Member since Jun 2007
19486 posts
Posted on 4/29/15 at 11:34 pm to
quote:

But what is the excuse for the long periods of poor play and the general tactical shittyness? We were promised an upgrade to Bobball, but what we've gotten is Bobball-lite where we suck at defending and suck at counter attacking. At least with Bradley we had an identity.


I will say that, for the most part, we *do* possess the ball a little better. We'll go long stretches with decent possession - even against better teams (I guess Mexico C- is a better team....) We can cycle the frick out of the ball. That possession almost never leads to even a half-arse decent look at goal, though. It feels like most of our goals are trash goals (like a follow up on a keeper spill) or some completely unrepeatable wonder strike like Shea's free kick. Just once, I'd like to see someone slot a nicely weighted through pass to a forward making a run that leads to a nice, smooth finish. As nice as Morris' actual finish was, it took a confluence of just right bounces off of seven legs that put the ball directly into his path.



I'm sure the lack of chances created is entirely Jozy's fault, and primarily because he plays in MLS.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
36311 posts
Posted on 4/29/15 at 11:57 pm to
The outside of the foot flick is nice, as is the vision.

And I will say that we do have fairly good midfield cohesion at times. But I don't think we have scored a goal as pretty as the second goal against Mexico in the GC Final in 2011. Or a counter attacking goal as nice as the second versus Brazil in the Confederate Cup. And I think for the most part is that we are playing at our talent level, but it just irks me that we haven't really seen a glimpse of the technical and tactical wonderland that we were promised. It also irks me that we have no real identity anymore. There is absolutely no shame in being a top 25ish national side who bunkers and defends well and breaks forward at speed. Not all teams can do that, but we can. There is nothing wrong with punting and running if that suits the players you have.
This post was edited on 4/30/15 at 12:13 am
Posted by cwil177
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2011
28422 posts
Posted on 4/30/15 at 7:41 am to
One of the problems I have with Jurgen's tenure is that I can't tell if we are a better side or not. Sure, our WC result was arguably better than Bob's but is it because of Jurgen or is it because of our better player pool? Idk.

I agree about that GC goal. I was there when it happened. It was beautiful. I honestly think we were going to win that game, had it not been for Cherundolo's injury. Bornstein got torched for basically all four goals, and then he never saw a look again for the national team.

To his credit his recruitment of dual nationals and identification of young talent has paid dividends. However, I wonder if that benefit is cancelled out by the blackballing of players like Benny, Lichaj, and to an extent, Ream. These players have the passing skills and ability to maintain possession that Jurgen claims he desires, yet he refuses to give them a sniff. At some point I would rather be Benny than Ream, who gets a callup for two games and then gets six minutes of time in the second game. WTF. That's just straight up dickish on Jurgen's part.
Posted by Sheep
Neither here nor there
Member since Jun 2007
19486 posts
Posted on 4/30/15 at 9:24 am to
quote:

Bornstein got torched for basically all four goals, and then he never saw a look again for the national team.


Nah - just the first. Goals 2, 3, and 4 were all manufactured by Mexico from shitty US clearances.

Before the injury, Cherundolo had played every minute at RB, and Lichaj every minute at LB. Both were outstanding the entire tournament.

I don't know what possessed Bob to move Lichaj to the right and bring in Bornstein. Now both outside backs were in positions they hadn't seen a minute at. Especially with Jonathon Spector, a natural RB on the bench. I assume the thought was that Bornstein was faster.
Posted by cwil177
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2011
28422 posts
Posted on 4/30/15 at 9:28 am to
You have a freakish savant like memory when it comes to the USMNT.

Check this out. Statistically Ream and Lichaj have been some of our best performers in European leagues. Passing. Clearances. Tackles. Free kicks won. Chances created. These are all thing Jurgen should want in versatile backs. LINK
This post was edited on 4/30/15 at 9:34 am
Posted by uway
Member since Sep 2004
33109 posts
Posted on 4/30/15 at 9:38 am to
quote:

One of the problems I have with Jurgen's tenure is that I can't tell if we are a better side or not. Sure, our WC result was arguably better than Bob's but is it because of Jurgen or is it because of our better player pool? Idk.


We don't seem better right now than we were in Bobs best days.
There was a stretch in 2013 where we seemed better, I guess.

Even if Jurgen was a great tactician and made great selection decisions, I don't think we'd be much better now than we were under Bob, because I don't think the players are that much better. As a whole maybe they are, and Bob was forced to use some players who might not get a sniff now, but we still don't have anyone as good as Donovan was. Is Cameron better than Dolo? Centerbacks better than Bocanegra?
Posted by Broski
Member since Jun 2011
70770 posts
Posted on 4/30/15 at 10:35 am to
Single-best US Team that I've ever seen was the one they sent to the 09 Confederations Cup.

It was the perfect storm of in-form guys. Gooch was healthy and a top 10 CB in the world, DeMerit emerged, allowing Bocanegra to play LB (forcing Bornstein to the bench). Timmy, Donovan and Dempsey were all in the prime of their careers and the striker pairing of Jozy & Davies complemented each other so well.

The only real weak link on that team was Rico Clark paired centrally with a young Michael Bradley.

Still, I think if Gooch & Davies are healthy a year later, we beat Ghana and probably even Uruguay in the quarters. That's easy to say in hindsight, but it's honestly how I feel.
This post was edited on 4/30/15 at 10:37 am
Posted by etm512
Mandeville, LA
Member since Aug 2005
20740 posts
Posted on 4/30/15 at 10:36 am to
I think at this point what I am most looking forward to/hoping from JK's tenure is more of an impact from him as technical director and the aforementioned recruitment of dual nationals than as an actual coach per say. And I guess I would hang my hopes on the recent successes of the Belgian youth movement ( LINK) and the German overhaul after their Euro embarrassments.

With that said I am really looking forward with red, white and blue tinted glasses to Qatar and 2026 to see the likes of Hyndman, Pulisic, Zelalem and those we don't even know yet. If JK is truly overhauling our youth system the way we were promised then things could be really good come that time. Alas, patience is not a virtue this country has

*no I am not saying we are Germany and no the last line is not a shot at anyone in this thread criticizing JK in this thread as a coach because I wholeheartedly agree with all those criticisms
This post was edited on 4/30/15 at 10:40 am
Posted by cwil177
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2011
28422 posts
Posted on 4/30/15 at 10:47 am to
Lots of if ands or buts, but imagine that team with a healthy Jermaine Jones and a healthy Gooch and a healthy Charlie Davies. Semis was not out of the realm of possibilities.
Posted by Sheep
Neither here nor there
Member since Jun 2007
19486 posts
Posted on 4/30/15 at 10:49 am to
quote:

You have a freakish savant like memory when it comes to the USMNT.


I looked at the highlights on Youtube.

I *did* remember that Bornstein played (for the most part) adequately that day.
Posted by cwil177
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2011
28422 posts
Posted on 4/30/15 at 10:52 am to
My memory from being at the game and seeing the Mexican players target the shite out of him on every run says otherwise.
Posted by Broski
Member since Jun 2011
70770 posts
Posted on 4/30/15 at 10:59 am to
quote:

Semis was not out of the realm of possibilities.



Our draw was amazing.
Posted by Sheep
Neither here nor there
Member since Jun 2007
19486 posts
Posted on 4/30/15 at 11:29 am to
quote:

target the shite out of him on every run says otherwise


They attacked the outside early and often. Makes sense - our front four were Donovan-Adu-Bedoya behind Dempsey.

Nobody tracked back on the outside (surprising, because Donovan always did and Bedoya certainly does now - I don't expect workrate from Dempsey and Adu ). If you look at the highlights you never see anyone in our third but the back four and Jones and Bradley. Acres of space on the wings - and with Gio and Barrera out there? Yeah, you're gonna have a bad time.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
36311 posts
Posted on 4/30/15 at 11:40 am to
quote:

Gooch was healthy and a top 10 CB in the world


Pre-injury Gooch was good, but he wasn't THAT good. He couldn't get a game in a middling Milan side that fall before his injury. He did hit a nice run of form towards the end of his time in Belgium and going into that summer. Such a horrible shame about his injury, as we won't ever know if he could have eventually forced his way into the Milan team.

I personally loved the way Demerit played. Slightly undersized, looked lightweight, but you could tell from the first moment he played that he would bleed for the team if he had to.

Also that tournament had the coming out party of Spector, who is another player I'm surprised has been frozen out, given that he gets game time for Birmingham and is a borderline PL level player. God, when he was moved to central midfield for West Ham, he had a sparkling run of form where he scored against Man U in the League Cup. I think West Ham's next game was against Sunderland, and Spector had one of the loveliest pieces of skill I've ever seen from an American. It happened around the 43rd minute if anyone can find a clip from that game in 2010.
Posted by EastNastySwag
Member since Dec 2014
5978 posts
Posted on 4/30/15 at 12:03 pm to
Gooch a Top 10 CB in the world?
Posted by Broski
Member since Jun 2011
70770 posts
Posted on 4/30/15 at 12:11 pm to
quote:

Pre-injury Gooch was good, but he wasn't THAT good.


I disagree, there's a reason Milan wanted him. Just didn't work out for him once he got there.

At Liege and with the USMNT circa 2008-09, you could see just how good he was. If he wasn't top 10, he was damn close.
This post was edited on 4/30/15 at 12:12 pm
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
36311 posts
Posted on 4/30/15 at 12:19 pm to
quote:

disagree, there's a reason Milan wanted him. Just didn't work out for him once he got there.


I completely agree, but I think it was because of his physical attributes. He was an absolute rare physical specimen. 6-5, pure muscle, with loads of physical ability. He was never good enough on the ball to reach that elite level. I really think if he could have gotten a run of games to partner with Silva, he could have cemented his place in that Milan team, as Silva was superb immediately, and covered for an aging Nesta (still an incredible defender) and Bonera.

quote:

At Liege and with the USMNT circa 2008-09, you could see just how good he was. If he wasn't top 10, he was damn close.



I agree that he was good, but I think he was in that 2nd tier of defenders just below the great CB's. I think he certainly could have played regularly in one of the top leagues. It's really a shame about the injury, because he was just about coming into his prime, and hasn't been the same player since.
Posted by cwil177
Baton Rouge
Member since Jun 2011
28422 posts
Posted on 4/30/15 at 12:23 pm to
I remember that Spector run of form in midfield. Scored two goals against Man U and scored against Timmy and Everton. I didn't see the skill you mention but given how impressed I was by his midfield form at that time, I would love to see that sunderland skill. I would also like to see him get another run, but he seems to be inexplicably blackballed like the others I've mentioned.
Posted by crazy4lsu
Member since May 2005
36311 posts
Posted on 4/30/15 at 12:29 pm to
I've been looking for the video. It's the Sunderland-West Ham game right after the Man U-West Ham league cup game. I've found commentary that mentioned it, but I can't find the clip. I'm hoping some more internet savvy people can find it. It's right before half-time, and it involves a silky dragback/turn that leads to a left-footed shot that goes just wide. If it went in it would have been one of the best goals an American has ever scored. Anton Ferdinand basically pushed Spector over as he was shooting, otherwise I think it would have been a goal.
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