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ESPN making up negative USMNT storylines
Posted on 6/11/14 at 11:30 pm
Posted on 6/11/14 at 11:30 pm
all over ESPN we have people saying Jurgen said we can't win the world cup
when what he actually said was "For us now talking about winning a World Cup, it is just not realistic."
which is true. looking ahead of the group and talking about winning it all would be pretty dumb at this point
when what he actually said was "For us now talking about winning a World Cup, it is just not realistic."
which is true. looking ahead of the group and talking about winning it all would be pretty dumb at this point
10
Posted on 6/11/14 at 11:37 pm to sgallo3
This was talked about in the Donovan joining ESPN thread. Even Vicks kennel club, who hates klinsman, agreed that this particular storyline was absurd and completely fabricated by the media just to have talking points "normal" Americans could understand
Posted on 6/11/14 at 11:46 pm to sgallo3
Yeah, I got bitched at when I said that ESPN would go with the lowest common denominator story when discussing the USMNT and the WC. IE, if we don't do well the story will be about Klinsmann's decision about Landon and "what if" he had been there, whether that is valid or not.
Because for the majority of the ESPN audience who only watches soccer every four years, Landon = USMNT.
And now Klinsmann has given Lalas and company a nice little shiny hook to troll around with.
I'm still pissed at Klinsmann and probably always will be for the Landon decision, but the ESPN is making more out of this than need be.
Of course, if Klinsmann knows the American media and psyche as well as he claims to in the "March to Brazil" series, he never would have said anything close to "we can't win" because that shite never goes over well with the ESPN crowd or the audience.
If we don't do well, watch out - it will ALL be about Klinsmann. And even as one of the two most still butthurt people on this board (Hi VKC), that won't be fair.
Because for the majority of the ESPN audience who only watches soccer every four years, Landon = USMNT.
And now Klinsmann has given Lalas and company a nice little shiny hook to troll around with.
I'm still pissed at Klinsmann and probably always will be for the Landon decision, but the ESPN is making more out of this than need be.
Of course, if Klinsmann knows the American media and psyche as well as he claims to in the "March to Brazil" series, he never would have said anything close to "we can't win" because that shite never goes over well with the ESPN crowd or the audience.
If we don't do well, watch out - it will ALL be about Klinsmann. And even as one of the two most still butthurt people on this board (Hi VKC), that won't be fair.
Posted on 6/11/14 at 11:56 pm to sgallo3
Realistic or not (which I agree winning is highly unrealistic) who wants to hear that their coach don't believe they can win? If he truly believes that what's the point of even playing?
Guess I'm just a "normal" American, but us normal American's see upsets and people beating the odds all the time from sports to life in general. So as long as there's a chance there's hope.
Give me a "these guys are bigger than you, stronger than you, faster than you, better than but go out there and give them hell speech." Don't come give me a these guys are better than you so let's just go through the motions and look to build for the future and one day we might be on their level speech.
Given I don't like what was said I do agree that ESPN is beating a dead horse. I wish they'd just stop talking about it, but Klinsmann isn't helping himself. He had numerous chances to just say something like the odds are against us but we're going to go out there do our best, but instead reiterates we have no chance.
Guess I'm just a "normal" American, but us normal American's see upsets and people beating the odds all the time from sports to life in general. So as long as there's a chance there's hope.
Give me a "these guys are bigger than you, stronger than you, faster than you, better than but go out there and give them hell speech." Don't come give me a these guys are better than you so let's just go through the motions and look to build for the future and one day we might be on their level speech.
Given I don't like what was said I do agree that ESPN is beating a dead horse. I wish they'd just stop talking about it, but Klinsmann isn't helping himself. He had numerous chances to just say something like the odds are against us but we're going to go out there do our best, but instead reiterates we have no chance.
Posted on 6/12/14 at 12:02 am to clhstrojans
quote:
but instead reiterates we have no chance.
he didn't say that at all. he said that they shouldn't be talking about winning the world cup. he wants to focus on winning the group
go read jurgen's actual quotes instead of ESPNs interpretation of them
This post was edited on 6/12/14 at 12:03 am
Posted on 6/12/14 at 12:07 am to sgallo3
"We cannot win this World Cup, because we are not at that level yet"
What am I missing here? That is his quote. Translation to this "normal" American is we're not that good yet so let's just mail it in and hope for the best and build for the future.
What am I missing here? That is his quote. Translation to this "normal" American is we're not that good yet so let's just mail it in and hope for the best and build for the future.
Posted on 6/12/14 at 12:13 am to clhstrojans
that is the quote from december
what he said today was "I think for us now, talking about winning a World Cup is just not realistic."
what he said today was "I think for us now, talking about winning a World Cup is just not realistic."
Posted on 6/12/14 at 12:15 am to sgallo3
Yeah. It's been discussed at length on here. More criticism from the media is a good thing, it means that expectations are higher than ever. This is one is a bit silly, though. It looks like a lost in translation deal to me more than anything.
American sports fans and media aren't used to coaches or management being this blunt when discussing what their teams are capable of. Managers/Coaches at the highest level in the US (in sports that aren't soccer) are far less likely to say something like this before a season or tournament has started.
I watch a ton of American sports and a ton of soccer and this line of thinking (and I get that most of it is BS mind games from Mourinho and the like) is far less common in big time American sports, where a never say die approach is more common than a realistic one.
American sports fans and media aren't used to coaches or management being this blunt when discussing what their teams are capable of. Managers/Coaches at the highest level in the US (in sports that aren't soccer) are far less likely to say something like this before a season or tournament has started.
I watch a ton of American sports and a ton of soccer and this line of thinking (and I get that most of it is BS mind games from Mourinho and the like) is far less common in big time American sports, where a never say die approach is more common than a realistic one.
Posted on 6/12/14 at 12:16 am to sgallo3
People need to read his whole quote.
He basically said we need to focus on getting out of the group before even dreaming about winning this World Cup.
He basically said we need to focus on getting out of the group before even dreaming about winning this World Cup.
Posted on 6/12/14 at 12:17 am to sgallo3
I really hope our players aren't being distracted by all this media bullshite. They' probably not (seeing as they're in Brazil and all) but they've got enough to think about over the next few weeks.
Time for everybody to shut up and play some fricking soccer.
Time for everybody to shut up and play some fricking soccer.
Posted on 6/12/14 at 12:18 am to rdw1690
quote:
I really hope our players aren't being distracted by all this media bullshite. They' probably not (seeing as they're in Brazil and all) but they've got enough to think about over the next few weeks.
Time for everybody to shut up and play some fricking soccer.
Once we kick off against Ghana on Monday, this "story" will be largely forgotten.
Posted on 6/12/14 at 12:18 am to mynamebowl
quote:
American sports, where a never say die approach is more common than a realistic one.
i guess you're probably right. it just seems dumb for people to be upset about when we haven't won a knockout round game since 2002
Posted on 6/12/14 at 12:44 am to clhstrojans
Please go find me a quote from Brad Stevens or Danny Ainge saying the Celtics would contend for the nba title this year. Or the Astros manager or Jim crane saying they're going to win the World Series. Or Gus Bradley saying the jaguars are going to win the Super Bowl. Or a 12 or over NCAA tourney coach talking about winning the whole tourney before their first game. You won't, bc that's fricking absurd.
As Roberto Martinez said when Alexi asked him what he would say if someone asked him Everton could win the EPL his response was "no one would ever ask me that bc we're so far from being contenders. We need to focus on realistic goals like the champions league." It's just stupid arse American journalists who don't understand how ridiculous it is to make winning the wc our goal. Of course we all would love to, the players and coaches even more so, and maybe deep down they believe it, but going into a tournament with such an unrealistic mindset is setting yourself up for failure.
Tim Howard himself basically said the furthest he's realistically thought about was making the semi-finals
As Roberto Martinez said when Alexi asked him what he would say if someone asked him Everton could win the EPL his response was "no one would ever ask me that bc we're so far from being contenders. We need to focus on realistic goals like the champions league." It's just stupid arse American journalists who don't understand how ridiculous it is to make winning the wc our goal. Of course we all would love to, the players and coaches even more so, and maybe deep down they believe it, but going into a tournament with such an unrealistic mindset is setting yourself up for failure.
Tim Howard himself basically said the furthest he's realistically thought about was making the semi-finals
Posted on 6/12/14 at 1:16 am to tigerfan88
quote:
Please go find me a quote from Brad Stevens or Danny Ainge saying the Celtics would contend for the nba title this year. Or the Astros manager or Jim crane saying they're going to win the World Series. Or Gus Bradley saying the jaguars are going to win the Super Bowl. Or a 12 or over NCAA tourney coach talking about winning the whole tourney before their first game. You won't, bc that's fricking absurd.
True, but from what I've seen, an American coach's response to questions regarding season long expectations will typically result in more vague, stealthy, political responses, while never being candid enough to admit his team has no chance. Fans over here can't stand that mindset.
Posted on 6/12/14 at 1:22 am to mynamebowl
You'll often hear a Premier League Manager, for example, speak pretty plainly about his teams chances, "conceding the title" or something similar, when his team may certainly not be out the race for a league or being in contention at an international tournament.
The massive cash disparity of the big clubs to the smaller ones around Europe has to be the primary reason for this more realistic mindset and approach to a season, and why fans over there may be more likely to accept this fact and be content with trying to fulfill maybe less lofty season goals (not being relegated, a top 4 finish, etc). The top 3-6 huge clubs from the best leagues in the world have created such a massive gap between those clubs and their less fortunate league competition, it's unrealistic and almost impossible for the smaller clubs to keep up.
The most popular American sports (football and basketball) have salary caps, drafts, etc which creates more opportunities for an organization to field a possible championship contender much quicker, which gives fans hope that their team can get very good, very fast.
The massive cash disparity of the big clubs to the smaller ones around Europe has to be the primary reason for this more realistic mindset and approach to a season, and why fans over there may be more likely to accept this fact and be content with trying to fulfill maybe less lofty season goals (not being relegated, a top 4 finish, etc). The top 3-6 huge clubs from the best leagues in the world have created such a massive gap between those clubs and their less fortunate league competition, it's unrealistic and almost impossible for the smaller clubs to keep up.
The most popular American sports (football and basketball) have salary caps, drafts, etc which creates more opportunities for an organization to field a possible championship contender much quicker, which gives fans hope that their team can get very good, very fast.
Posted on 6/12/14 at 1:58 am to tigerfan88
quote:
Please go find me a quote from Brad Stevens or Danny Ainge saying the Celtics would contend for the nba title this year. Or the Astros manager or Jim crane saying they're going to win the World Series. Or Gus Bradley saying the jaguars are going to win the Super Bowl. Or a 12 or over NCAA tourney coach talking about winning the whole tourney before their first game. You won't, bc that's fricking absurd.
Are there any quotes saying they don't have a shot? Had they said that it would have been blown up just as much as the Klinnsman comments. No matter how unrealistic winning is you just don't see many coaches/exec's/organizations saying they don't have a shot winning, at least publicly. The coaches that don't believe in their teams are typically the ones that end up losing their teams and have players just going through the motions or playing for stats.
I don't know maybe Soccer players are different?
Besides a rebuilding Celtics team (who Ainge said was better than the team that wasn't rebuilding the year before) is not = to a USA National side that is arguably the most talented it's ever fielded.
I'm by no means saying blow smoke and claim you can win the world cup, but a simple " the odds are heavily against us but we're going to go out and try and do as much damage as we can" would have gone over just fine with the typical American public and this would have been a non story.
That's basically saying the same thing but it jives with the American psyche to always hold out hope for a miracle. Otherwise the casual fan is sitting there thinking what am I watching this for if we don't have a chance?
quote:
Tim Howard himself basically said the furthest he's realistically thought about was making the semi-finals
Then maybe it's that mentality that needs to change if the sport hopes to endure itself over other sports to the American public and in turn upcoming American youth. I don't know about you guys but most athletes I've been around in high school and college (football, basketball, baseball) are delusional as f#ck. The good ones I've known believe that on any given day they could put everything together and beat anyone. Hell I knew a guy who played for ULL the last time they came to Tiger Stadium that believed with all his heart that they were going to upset LSU. How unrealistic is that? Extremely unrealistic, but shite no matter how unlikely if you go in with that mentality you sometimes get a Georgia Southern beating a Florida.
This post was edited on 6/12/14 at 2:05 am
Posted on 6/12/14 at 2:05 am to sgallo3
Americans are used to parity due to salary caps. This is conducive to an environment where an underdog can unexpectedly win a championship because the absolute difference between the best and worst teams are not as large as in the rest of the world. In other aspects of American life, there are no artificial constructs that lead to parity. Hence, people are more realistic outside of sports. No CEO of a small software company is going to say, "We have a chance to have higher revenues than Google this year."
This post was edited on 6/12/14 at 2:07 am
Posted on 6/12/14 at 2:08 am to clhstrojans
The world wide soccer mindset is different. Comments like these are much more common in high level soccer than American sports. Maybe it's a cultural thing, I don't know.
Posted on 6/12/14 at 2:51 am to tigerfan88
quote:Spot on. But this won't shut up Lalas and the huge controversy-hungry American media. Prepare to hear this and the Donovan saga over and over and over throughout the WC,
As Roberto Martinez said when Alexi asked him what he would say if someone asked him Everton could win the EPL his response was "no one would ever ask me that bc we're so far from being contenders. We need to focus on realistic goals like the champions league."
Posted on 6/12/14 at 3:12 am to Anfield Road
quote:
Americans are used to parity due to salary caps.
You see high school kids/ parents all the time think they have a shot at upsetting a powerhouse like a "John Curtis or a West Monroe". There's no salary cap there and there certainly isn't parity, but what is there is hope, or faith in your kids. Plain and simple the belief that if you work hard, give it all you got maybe you can pull the upset or you'll give it all you got trying. You don't concede that it's impossible before even stepping foot on the field.
quote:
In other aspects of American life, there are no artificial constructs that lead to parity. Hence, people are more realistic outside of sports. No CEO of a small software company is going to say, "We have a chance to have higher revenues than Google this year."
You also don't see CEO's of small companies saying "We have no chance of meeting our goals this quarter" before the quarter even begins. How good would that be for worker moral?
Besides, Google wasn't always the giant small software companies were competing with. They're actually a great example of the American mentality. They're a small start up company competing with the establishment (yahoo, excite, webcrawler, etc) but didn't give up. Then boom the company skyrockets quickly and they're now the establishment. Same mentality American's have in sports. If you have faith then maybe just maybe this year, maybe this team, is your winning lottery ticket, your miracle on ice or it could be your .com bust, or your 50th strait blowout. You just want to believe there's a chance cause you never know when it is your time.
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