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re: Why does the healthcare debate essentially revolve around like 4% of Americans?

Posted on 9/20/17 at 9:55 pm to
Posted by BBONDS25
Member since Mar 2008
47876 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 9:55 pm to
quote:

People are told seek care elsewhere


And is it possible for them to get that care elsewhere?
Posted by TigerDoc
Texas
Member since Apr 2004
9893 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 9:59 pm to
Yes, good point. Slowing of healthcare inflation has been one of the primary achievements of the ACA era and goes to show that expanding coverage doesn't necessarily worsen per capita spending or health care inflation.

I'll make you an ACA defender yet.
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
69215 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:03 pm to
Nice try.

The chart shows our cost growth has been at or below OECD average for nearly 2 decades/
Posted by TigerDoc
Texas
Member since Apr 2004
9893 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:06 pm to
Often yes, but often not - the problem occurs for people who make too much to qualify for medicaid or much ACA subsidy but not enough to continue to pay all expenses out of pocket or be able to meet their deductibles, co-pays, and premiums.
Posted by CelticDog
Member since Apr 2015
42867 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:07 pm to
How many?
All.

100%

Head count irrelevant.
All are covered.

England
France.
Germany.
Posted by TigerDoc
Texas
Member since Apr 2004
9893 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:12 pm to
Your chart shows 12 years and a dramatic reduction in inflation from '09 to '11 compared to the decade before that.

This is '70 - '05 from the Kaiser Foundation. The red line is the American system. Starting in the 90's things really get out of hand.

Posted by beerJeep
Louisiana
Member since Nov 2016
34912 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:14 pm to
What's the obesity rate of France, GB, and the Scandinavian countries with Universal Healthcare?

How active is the average individual in those countries compared to here?

What's the diet like over there? Here?

What's the racial makeup there? Here?

And of course there's the whole population thing.
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
69215 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:22 pm to
quote:

a dramatic reduction in inflation from '09 to '11

The data actually shows that slowing in the growth of healthcare costs began around 2004-2007, mainly due to the proliferation of HSA's, deductibles, and other cost-sharing mechanisms.
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
20855 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:30 pm to
quote:

Look, I have sympathy for those with pre-existing conditions, but why must they get priority over the 85%+ of Americans who simply want lower premiums and costs?


Look at the bright side, you wont have to pay a lot until youre really sick. If you get really sick you wont have to worry about paying high premiums for very long, though your estate might. It all balances out.
Posted by TigerDoc
Texas
Member since Apr 2004
9893 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:31 pm to
You may be right about that attribution. Here's the more recent data from CMS. It's bumpy but the real significant change happens in the late aughts. That's probably the recession first but that can't account for more recent years. Picking up again, though...

Posted by Kingpenm3
Xanadu
Member since Aug 2011
8952 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:34 pm to
Not sure if it has been covered yet, but did Cassidy lie to Jimmy Kimmel, or not?
Posted by NYNolaguy1
Member since May 2011
20855 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:35 pm to
quote:

And of course there's the whole population thing.


This argument actually lends more credence to individual states having healthcare rather than the federal govt.

There are more people in Europe than the US.
Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
69215 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:39 pm to
Fed reserve seems to imply the downward trend was happening before recession.


Posted by HailHailtoMichigan!
Mission Viejo, CA
Member since Mar 2012
69215 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:47 pm to
Here's another chart:

Posted by beerJeep
Louisiana
Member since Nov 2016
34912 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:49 pm to
quote:

This argument actually lends more credence to individual states having healthcare rather than the federal govt.


I'm perfectly OK with the states deciding. California wants to go single payer? Coolio. Go for it. Let's see how that turns out.
Posted by frogtown
Member since Aug 2017
4971 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:52 pm to
quote:

There has never been one word about cost to consumer of heath care by gop.
Instead the proposal caps spending per capita.
It just means states will get less money to spend on medicaid people.
There is nothing in it that reduces the costs of services.



Has Obamacare reduced the cost of services? Has Obamacare reduced the cost of drugs?

I thought this was about health insurance.

Graham/Cassidy will reduce the cost of insurance premiums for those in the individual market for states who choose to implement the right solutions. If the states choose to keep Obamacare or implement single payer...you are fricked. Otherwise your premiums have no where to go but down.
Posted by CelticDog
Member since Apr 2015
42867 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:58 pm to
Right. Neither party plan does anything about costs.
Sanders plan does.

Therefore he is marginalised.


Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
57016 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 10:58 pm to
quote:

The "uninsurable" are only uninsurable if you allow insurance companies to exclude them.
Nope. The uninsurable are uninsurable because their risk is too high. In fact, it's not a risk at all, it's a certainty.

We're going to have a hard time having any sensible discussion if you don't know what a risk is.

quote:

Every other OECD nation guarantees all citizens healthcare
Nope. They do no such thing. They ration (deny) care all the time. .

quote:

If we were to start with the proposition that all citizens get insurance
then it's not insurance. And it ceases to be a tool to manage risk.

quote:

the incentive will be there to finally bring our inefficiencies in healthcare spending under control.
Huh? You believe insurance companies have incentive to keep prices high?

quote:

We get it backwards by trying to get costs down first before expanding coverage. It needs to work the other way.
You're confusing costs and prices. Costs aren't really effected by number of people covered by insurance. A hip implant doesn't get cheaper to manufacturer because a person has insurance.

Expanding coverage drives costs up for anyone that doesn't get expensive treatment. And the simple fact that a small minority drive the majority of the expenses means that covering them will raise, not lower prices to paying majority. It's simple math.
This post was edited on 9/20/17 at 10:59 pm
Posted by TigerDoc
Texas
Member since Apr 2004
9893 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 11:01 pm to
So let's bring this back to your OP. I take it you wouldn't mind a return to the pre-ACA world of pre-existing condition exclusions? The reason for the comprehensive reform including mandate, guaranteed issue, and subsidies was to avoid the climbing numbers of uninsured and reverse them. Those numbers were still climbing in the US prior to the ACA. They've fallen dramatically since. Graham-Cassidy would undo a lot of that.



Does
Posted by Taxing Authority
Houston
Member since Feb 2010
57016 posts
Posted on 9/20/17 at 11:07 pm to
quote:

we could still get better access, less cost growth, and similar quality to what we have now.
Let's see your model.

quote:

But we'd have to make peace with the idea that po' folks deserve care
Is this a joke? They already get it. At other's expense. So much of it, they are driving prices up.
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