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Whoa - LA Times Ed Board "Hate speech is loathsome, but trying to silence it is dangerous"

Posted on 8/17/17 at 1:12 pm
Posted by Pettifogger
Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone
Member since Feb 2012
79115 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 1:12 pm
Good for them - LINK

Despite the debacle in Charlottesville, Va. — or perhaps because of it — you can rest assured that there will be more marches around the nation in the coming weeks by people who espouse hateful, racist ideas. And those events, some of which are already planned, will undoubtedly draw counter-protesters determined to shout down, if not shut down, the neo-Nazis, Klansmen, self-styled storm troopers and others from the cesspool of the far right.

The vast majority of Americans would sooner have their communities hit by a plague of locusts than by the torch-bearing racists who invaded Charlottesville. Nevertheless, it is vitally important to recognize that people are constitutionally free to hold them even the most deplorable views, and to express them as well. Counter-protesters, for their part, are equally entitled to say clearly and forcefully that racism, anti-Semitism and similar beliefs that denigrate or deny the humanity of others have no place in our society.

Neither side, however, has a right to start throwing punches. Nor should the mere risk of such violence be used as pretext for denying people the ability to exercise their right to free speech or assembly.

These exceptionally American notions seem lost on some of our leaders. A case in point: Several elected officials have asked the federal government to withdraw a permit for an Aug. 26 rally at San Francisco’s Crissy Field organized by Patriot Prayer, a Portland-based group of right-wing provocateurs. That is the exactly wrong approach. Denying permits in order to shut down speech that is offensive or so controversial that it might provoke a violent backlash is the act of an autocratic government.

This nation has a history during times of stress of trampling the very rights we supposedly revere.
That doesn’t mean authorities should blithely allow people to be put in danger. The melee in Charlottesville, like the clashes in Berkeley, Portland and other communities where extremists on the right and left clashed, demonstrate how volatile these events can be. No one can reasonably expect a gathering of neo-Nazis, Klansmen, Black Lives Matter and anti-fascist activists to produce a Kumbaya moment.

Instead, local officials must rise to the challenge and ensure the public peace through proper preparation, crowd control, site-specific rules on what items are allowed, and other reasonable steps to mitigate violence. The clashes in Charlottesville over the weekend stand as a warning to communities that do not prepare for such events. It’s clear from eyewitness reports that the police planning, presence and response to the Unite the Right rally Saturday in a Charlottesville park was woefully inadequate, including a failure to keep the two sides separated and to bar people from entering the park with clubs and other weapons. But that is a crowd control issue, not a free speech issue, and the two must not be conflated.


It is in fractious times like these that we must hold firmest to constitutional principles. Unfortunately, this nation has a history during times of stress of trampling the very rights we supposedly revere. A century ago, anarchists and leftists were arrested and in some cases deported because of their beliefs. In the 1940s and 1950s it happened again in response to wars hot and cold. Fear and racism during World War II also propelled the establishment of internment camps for Japanese Americans, and a generation later the government reacted to protests over the Vietnam War by spying on American citizens exercising their right to free speech.

That is a dangerous path — one even more dangerous than a street brawl among political radicals. Violence at protests should be denounced no matter who perpetrates it, but the wrong response would be to silence those with whom we might not agree.

We would not urge anyone to avoid confronting and countering political or social ideas they might find disagreeable, or even hatefully reprehensible. But as a society, the nation cannot countenance its political debates descending into violence — or being preemptively shut down — no matter how noxious the ideas might be.
Posted by roadGator
Member since Feb 2009
139776 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 1:13 pm to
Antifa flash mob at the LAT HQ by Sunday?
Posted by RogerTheShrubber
Juneau, AK
Member since Jan 2009
259898 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 1:13 pm to
They get it.
Posted by SirWinston
PNW
Member since Jul 2014
81295 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 1:14 pm to


Based LA Times - one of the very very few who correctly called Trump winning the election
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
134843 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 1:15 pm to
quote:

Antifa flash mob at the LAT HQ by Sunday?

That author will be deemed a nazi by tomorrow
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35236 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 1:16 pm to
I think irony is that those who want to regulate speech fail to realize that any new law or regulation would be enforced by the......executive branch. So in this case, they would be advocating for federal enforcement power to be given to Trump.
Posted by Damone
FoCo
Member since Aug 2016
32522 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 1:17 pm to
As I saw someone say, trying to have government silence speech you don't like isn't just a slipper slope, it's a sheer cliff.
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
134843 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 1:17 pm to
quote:

I think irony is that those who want to regulate speech fail to realize that any new law or regulation would be enforced by the......executive branch. So in this case, they would be advocating for federal enforcement power to be given to Trump.

Can you explain that? How does the executive branch enforce the law?
Posted by Pettifogger
Capitol Hill Autonomous Zone
Member since Feb 2012
79115 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 1:18 pm to
Next, we go live to the New York Times...

Posted by TigerNutwhack
Baton Rouge
Member since Jan 2004
4134 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 1:18 pm to
quote:

Next, we go live to the New York Times...


Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
134843 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 1:18 pm to
wow
Posted by roadGator
Member since Feb 2009
139776 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 1:19 pm to
Executive controls DOJ. Wink, wink, don't prosecute people for this or that crime. Pretty soon, people will stop being arrested for that crime.
This post was edited on 8/17/17 at 1:20 pm
Posted by Numberwang
Bike City, USA
Member since Feb 2012
13163 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 1:19 pm to
Trump is helping the nation break the conditioning.

It's happening.

#MAGA
Posted by Damone
FoCo
Member since Aug 2016
32522 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 1:20 pm to
Want to know what's really scary? Take a look at the education history of that piece's author:

quote:

K-Sue Park is the Critical Race Studies Fellow at UCLA School of Law. Previously, she was an Equal Justice Works Fellow and staff attorney in the El Paso office of Texas RioGrande Legal Aid, where she investigated predatory lending and provided foreclosure defense. She received her J.D. cum laude from Harvard Law School and her Ph.D from the Rhetoric Department of the University of California, Berkeley, both in the summer of 2015. Her dissertation is entitled If Your World Were Built on Dispossession: Strategies of Conquest by Settlement in America.
Posted by wfallstiger
Wichita Falls, Texas
Member since Jun 2006
11348 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 1:20 pm to
don't ever want such driven underground, out of sight. As vile as it is at least you can keep an eye on it and those
Posted by roadGator
Member since Feb 2009
139776 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 1:20 pm to
quote:

Next, we go live to the New York Times...


You bastard. You could not even let us bask in LAT sanity for 5 damn minutes.
Posted by upgrayedd
Lifting at Tobin's house
Member since Mar 2013
134843 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 1:21 pm to
quote:

Executive controls DOJ. Wink, wink, don't prosecute people for this or that crime. Pretty soon, people will stop being arrested for that crime.


Don't states have the power to create their own "hate crime" laws? Seems odd that there would be feds arresting people for this stuff.
Posted by kclsufan
Show Me
Member since Jun 2008
12092 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 1:21 pm to
quote:

the neo-Nazis, Klansmen, self-styled storm troopers and others from the cesspool of the far right

quote:

the torch-bearing racists who invaded Charlottesville

quote:

Patriot Prayer, a Portland-based group of right-wing provocateurs

quote:

a gathering of neo-Nazis, Klansmen

Yeah I think I see their angle. This article wasn't about not silencing speech nearly as much as trying to paint everyone on the right as Nazis, etc.



Posted by boosiebadazz
Member since Feb 2008
80160 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 1:22 pm to
DOJ, FBI, ATF, DHS, etc. are all federal agencies under control of the executive branch
Posted by Centinel
Idaho
Member since Sep 2016
43318 posts
Posted on 8/17/17 at 1:23 pm to
That headline....dear god.

Not surprising coming from a proggy though. They loves them some state control.
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