What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military | Page 4 | TigerDroppings.com
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Zed
Alabama Fan
Member since Feb 2010
8297 posts

re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military

quote:

Isn't this why we fricking work and earn money?
Right, and people who do work should be able to do those things. Provide assistance to people who truly need help, and are WORKING.


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Srbtiger06
USA Fan
Buga Nation
Member since Apr 2006
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military
quote:

I fear you're right, but that doesn't mean we should give up.


I see what you're saying, I just think you're attacking the issue/problem the wrong way

I don't support government healthcare by any means BUT if we're going to implement one I would prefer we attack the core problems first.

Plus coming on here and saying we are fricked up because we don't have universal healthcare will draw some ire

Either way, I get where you're coming from


Moustache
Kansas State Fan
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Member since May 2008
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military
quote:

People can pay for their own goddamn frick-medicine.


I hope if you have children, you didn't take the child tax credit or childcare dependent expenses credit.

I also hope you didn't take out student loans that were subsidized by the fed. government.

If so, pay for your own goddamn frick children and frick education.


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Moustache
Kansas State Fan
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military
quote:

The way I look at things, people should be able to feed/clothe/house themselves. In all but very high rent metropolitan areas these things should be within reach, even for the poor. Are there people who need welfare/food stamps/public housing? Yes. There are also people who don't but receive them and we should work to transition people out of those programs.

Healthcare is something that can be cost prohibitive for a lot of working people without employer provided health insurance and low wages, and becoming more so every year. It's a matter of prioritizing need and where money should be spent.



PERFECTLY said. Bravo.


Moustache
Kansas State Fan
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military
quote:

If you think republicans oppose contraception, do you also think they oppose healthcare, because they don't support the government form of it?


I should've stated the "religious right" which is a huge base of republicans unfortunately.

quote:

epublicans are not against contraception, republicans are against forcing employers to provide contraception. I hope you see the difference.


By the same token, you bitch about health costs being too high and you bitch about too many welfare recipients because of all the children being made by poor people. If contraceptives were paid for, which are considerably cheaper than children, wouldn't that be a net gain for you? In theory, of course.


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Moustache
Kansas State Fan
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Member since May 2008
19517 posts
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military
quote:

Would you support severe restrictions on the system you advocate, so that abuse is prevented?



I haven't researched specifics or even begun to delve into issues of possible abuse, but I would assume there would have to be a happy medium. Same as we do with industry and businesses and practically everything else in the world.


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HailHailtoMichigan!
Michigan Fan
Coto de Caza, CA
Member since Mar 2012
18756 posts
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military
The statistics between America and Europe could very well be a sign of things, but statistics often reflect what the agenda of the statistician is.

It would be much more effective if one were to live a few years in a European country, then come back, than to make a judgement simply by reading statistics.

Hell, for all know, the conservative parties in Europe are throwing statistics out there that glorify our system.


Moustache
Kansas State Fan
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Member since May 2008
19517 posts
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military
quote:

I see what you're saying, I just think you're attacking the issue/problem the wrong way

I don't support government healthcare by any means BUT if we're going to implement one I would prefer we attack the core problems first.

Plus coming on here and saying we are fricked up because we don't have universal healthcare will draw some ire

Either way, I get where you're coming from





Gotcha. It just bothered me seeing a kid with Type 1 diabetes denied coverage in the past. That's one good thing from the ACA.


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Moustache
Kansas State Fan
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Member since May 2008
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military
quote:

It would be much more effective if one were to live a few years in a European country, then come back, than to make a judgement simply by reading statistics.

Hell, for all know, the conservative parties in Europe are throwing statistics out there that glorify our system.



Very true. i guess my point is more that we need a new system, rather than a government run one. The current system is absolutely pathetic.
the only reason I went single payer is because there are successful examples of them as opposed to anything else.


KrushGroove
Southeastern LA Fan
Member since Jun 2012
593 posts

re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military
quote:

It would be much more effective if one were to live a few years in a European country, then come back


nearly 30 years in the US and 10 abroad, under the US system and a single-payer system


Moustache
Kansas State Fan
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military
quote:

nearly 30 years in the US and 10 abroad, under the US system and a single-payer system



Thoughts?


HailHailtoMichigan!
Michigan Fan
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Member since Mar 2012
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re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military
quote:

The current system is absolutely pathetic.
I agree, but probably for different reasons than you. I think any system that has a hideous mix of government and private interests, stuck in a web of confusion and regulations, is bound to be a disaster.


Zed
Alabama Fan
Member since Feb 2010
8297 posts

re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military
quote:

PERFECTLY said. Bravo.
I think you and I are on the same page here.

I think you can support getting people self sufficient and responsible, and off government dependence, and recognize a legitimate need for assistance with healthcare costs for responsible working people.

As far as what any government health care system would look like, I'd prefer something with primarily vouchers and healthy competition and choices for people.


gideon
Member since Jan 2013
509 posts

re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military
quote:

Socialized medicine IS a form of welfare. It is a redistributive program. Do you think the vast majority of Americans who currently approve of their healthcare in this country would just magically switch over to a system that is guaranteed to be more inefficient.

If you want a government run system, make it so that only people that use it will pay taxes that fund it.


We are the most inefficient developed healthcare system in the world(regardless of payer). US Hospitals re-admit on average 40% of inpatient customers within 30 days of discharge.

Think about that for a second, that is as inefficient as it comes. No one goes home when they're cured anymore, you're discharged based on when your coverage will expire. Couple that with the fact that procedures aren't performed based solely on medical necessity, they're performed or not performed based on their reimbursement rates(government and commercial). Or their ability to couple with a DRG as designated in a payer contract or CDI guidelines.
This post was edited on 2/26 at 4:06 pm


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Moustache
Kansas State Fan
GEAUX TIGERS
Member since May 2008
19517 posts
Online

re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military
quote:

I think any system that has a hideous mix of government and private interests, stuck in a web of confusion and regulations, is bound to be a disaster.



Agreed 100% with that. If we're going to have a completely privatized systme, there needs to be regulations. Insurance companies pick and choose what they cover or what they deem "medically necessary." These hoops cause us to not receive efficient care as well and wouldn't really go away even if the government had nothing to do with it.


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Champagne
New Orleans Saints Fan
French and Spanish Empire Border
Member since Oct 2007
13788 posts

re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military
I am in favor of FedGov taking care of all of our healthcare needs, but, I would want FedGov to also have the power to compel us to live healthy lifestyles in order to preserve scarce FedGov resources.

If FedGov is going to take care of all of our healthcare needs, I would like FedGov to supervise the citizenry for the purpose of making sure that they don't smoke, get fat, eat too much sugar, drink too much alcohol, etc.

We don't have to start out that way, but, it will soon be a matter of national security that we need to compel healthy living.

I'm also in favor of FedGov supervising our travel in order to ensure that we aren't using too many fossil fuels.
This post was edited on 2/26 at 4:03 pm


KrushGroove
Southeastern LA Fan
Member since Jun 2012
593 posts

re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military
quote:

Thoughts?


Growing up in the US system and the insurance system, I just assumed that's how business is done. Moving abroad, there was a complete change in the attitude of the people here when it comes to health care. Less commodity and more social need and priority.

There's good and points in the thread.

Personally, there are pros and cons to both systems. I'd like to see more diagnostic imaging here, but back home I think there was too much - and it became expensive. I'd like to see a bit more private options but the people here are pretty defensive about not including such options.

But I've had nothing but pleasant experiences with the system here, with doctors and in hospitals. When they suspected I had an urgent issue, I was taken care of nearly immediately. And friends and relatives who have had much more major issues have likewise been treated quickly.

I won't get an MRI today for a twinge in my knee, probably. But the horror stories are overstated and much more exception than rule.

I think the US could learn from other systems just like I think the other systems could learn things from the US model.

But I think it's a fair point that people here take better care of themselves than back home. And that eases some of the burden on the system so I know that direct comparisons in that regard are tough to make.

I also think that costs is a huge issue and they don't necessarily come down with a single payer option. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

I do believe that the need for change in the US is more urgent than the change needed here. But if costs and wastes were somehow gotten under control, the pressing need to move to a new system would not feel all that urgent.


HailHailtoMichigan!
Michigan Fan
Coto de Caza, CA
Member since Mar 2012
18756 posts
Online

re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military
quote:

We don't have to start out that way, but, it will soon be a matter of national security that we need to compel healthy living.
This is the single biggest threat of a socialized system.


HailHailtoMichigan!
Michigan Fan
Coto de Caza, CA
Member since Mar 2012
18756 posts
Online

re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military
quote:

I'd prefer something with primarily vouchers and healthy competition and choices for people.

We need this for education, big time. The amount of inequality that public education has produced in this country is really shameful, imo. As Condoleeza Rice said, you can look at a zip code and see if someone is receiving a good education or not. I hope something like that would not happen under socialized medicine.

The problem is, economic progressives do not support vouchers.


HailHailtoMichigan!
Michigan Fan
Coto de Caza, CA
Member since Mar 2012
18756 posts
Online

re: What would you rather have? Healthcare related vs. military
quote:

KrushGroove
Very nice response. What country do you reside in?


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