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re: What was the purpose of dropping the atomic bombs in Japan?
Posted on 2/26/17 at 9:53 am to joshnorris14
Posted on 2/26/17 at 9:53 am to joshnorris14
We've been through this discussion before. Sure dropping the A-bombs was a monumental tragedy, but the Japanese were not about to surrender and any negotiation efforts would have proven futile.
The alternative would have been a protracted ground invasion of Japan which would have inflicted incalculable casualties on the Japanese people, not to mention the US military, and no doubt a strong anti-war movement would have erupted in America 20 years before the Vietnam debacle
The alternative would have been a protracted ground invasion of Japan which would have inflicted incalculable casualties on the Japanese people, not to mention the US military, and no doubt a strong anti-war movement would have erupted in America 20 years before the Vietnam debacle
0
Posted on 2/26/17 at 9:53 am to joshnorris14
Don't F*ck with USA eot
Posted on 2/26/17 at 9:53 am to cokebottleag
quote:
That wasn't only the DoS's fault under Truman. While certain policy heads for US policy in China were communist sympathizers (Hand being the primary), the more accurate place to lay the blame for China is at the feet of Chiang Kai-Shek. He was absolutely responsible for the fall of his country. He had all the advantages and he squandered them all in a tornado of corruption and mismanagement.
True. And Chiang, with our suport and management, had the resources to beat back Mao, and Truman knew it. His distrust of Chiang and his fear of Soviets involvement prevented him from intervening.
Posted on 2/26/17 at 9:54 am to FutureRATeammember
quote:
The military wasn't going to surrender.
They weren't going to surrender if the Emperor was forced out and as a consequence commanded them to fight to the death. You keep repeating that it's debunked, but it's not, and government cables from the time that have sense been released show that.
Posted on 2/26/17 at 9:55 am to joshnorris14
Three words. Pearl Harbor, Russia! End of discussion!
This post was edited on 2/26/17 at 10:19 am
Posted on 2/26/17 at 9:55 am to joshnorris14
But now Emporer's post-war seat is more ceremonial than anything. And we forced Japan to give up all their conquered territory in China, Korea and South Pacific...and forced them to basically be demilitarized to the point where they no longer had offensive fighting capability
Posted on 2/26/17 at 9:56 am to Vacherie Saint
quote:
True. And Chiang, with our suport and management, had the resources to beat back Mao, and Truman knew it. His distrust of Chiang and his fear of Soviets involvement prevented him from intervening.
The Communist spies in the State Department prevented CSK from being supplied by the US. They reported that Mao was this great guy and CKS was a madman
Posted on 2/26/17 at 9:57 am to joshnorris14
You are just wrong here. There was a coup attempt to keep the war going. The Japanese military wasn't going to surrender. Books have been written on this.
Posted on 2/26/17 at 9:57 am to joshnorris14
quote:
They never unconditionallu surrendered
quote:
a day after the bombing of Nagasaki, Japan submits its acquiescence to the Potsdam Conference terms of unconditional surrender
Posted on 2/26/17 at 9:57 am to joshnorris14
frick the Japanese and frick moral high ground.
Sneak attack on pearl
The horrrendous treatment of POWs
The reality is they should not have existed when we decided we were finished
Sneak attack on pearl
The horrrendous treatment of POWs
The reality is they should not have existed when we decided we were finished
Posted on 2/26/17 at 9:58 am to joshnorris14
Had to sweep the Leg.
Posted on 2/26/17 at 9:59 am to joshnorris14
To knock Japan out before the Soviets got too far into the Pacific Theater.
Remember, at Yalta, Stalin promised to enter the Pacific War 3 months after VE Day. That was August 8, 1945.
Hiroshima - August 6, 1945
Nagasaki - August 9, 1945
The A-bomb test took place during the Potsdam Conference. By all accounts, Truman's demeanor and attitude towards Stalin changed after he found out about the success of the test.
ETA, I still think the primary purpose was to bring the war to a quick halt to save US (and Japanese) lives, but postwar considerations absolutely played a role.
Remember, at Yalta, Stalin promised to enter the Pacific War 3 months after VE Day. That was August 8, 1945.
Hiroshima - August 6, 1945
Nagasaki - August 9, 1945
The A-bomb test took place during the Potsdam Conference. By all accounts, Truman's demeanor and attitude towards Stalin changed after he found out about the success of the test.
ETA, I still think the primary purpose was to bring the war to a quick halt to save US (and Japanese) lives, but postwar considerations absolutely played a role.
This post was edited on 2/26/17 at 10:02 am
Posted on 2/26/17 at 10:00 am to joshnorris14
This thread almost turned me gay, then I remembered my principles
Honestly, the Japanese needed a quite literal culture shock. They deserved it for their atrocities, frick them.
I wish we had dropped 3
Honestly, the Japanese needed a quite literal culture shock. They deserved it for their atrocities, frick them.
I wish we had dropped 3
Posted on 2/26/17 at 10:02 am to joshnorris14
quote:
What was the purpose of dropping the atomic bombs in Japan?
They spent all that money building those bombs, so they were going to drop them on someone regardless. I suspect that it was a show of force to Russia as much as anything else, which is disgusting and murderous. Not quite as murderous as the Dresden bombings, but Hiroshima and Nagasaki bombings get credit for being a scientifically driven mass murders with the added benefit of multi generational birth defects!
Posted on 2/26/17 at 10:04 am to joshnorris14
quote:Without any knowledge of what the hell happened?
Until you actually think about it.
Imagine your in Japan and all of the sudden you see a nuclear bomb dropped without any knowledge of what the hell happened.
They knew EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED!
quote:
A Warning to Japan Urging Surrender: Excerpts from President Truman's radio address to the American people, August 9, 1945
The British, Chinese, and United States Governments have given the Japanese people adequate warning of what is in store for them. We have laid down the general terms on which they can surrender. Our warning went unheeded; our terms were rejected. Since then the Japanese have seen what our atomic bomb can do. They can foresee what it will do in the future.
The world will note that the first atomic bomb was dropped on Hiroshima, a military base. That was because we wished in this first attack to avoid, insofar as possible, the killing of civilians. But that attack is only a warning of things to come. If Japan does not surrender, bombs will have to be dropped on her war industries and, unfortunately, thousands of civilian lives will be lost. I urge Japanese civilians to leave industrial cities immediately, and save themselves from destruction.
I realize the tragic significance of the atomic bomb.
Its production and its use were not lightly undertaken by this Government. But we knew that our enemies were on the search for it. We know now how close they were to finding it. And we knew the disaster, which would come to this Nation, and to all peace-loving nations, to all civilization, if they had found it first.
That is why we felt compelled to undertake the long and uncertain and costly labor of discovery and production.
We won the race of discovery against the Germans. Having found the bomb we have used it. We have used it against those who attacked us without warning at Pearl Harbor, against those who have starved and beaten and executed American prisoners of war, against those who have abandoned all pretense of obeying international laws of warfare. We have used it in order to shorten the agony of war, in order to save the lives of thousands and thousands of young Americans.
We shall continue to use it until we completely destroy Japan's power to make war. Only a Japanese surrender will stop us.
Posted on 2/26/17 at 10:05 am to FutureRATeammember
Why do people feel a need to try and breed repressed feelings of guilt over things that were out of the control of basically everyone alive today?
We can learn nothing from this discussion. None of us here can remotely determine what we would have done in this situation. What is the ulterior motive for this thread? That is the real question.
We can learn nothing from this discussion. None of us here can remotely determine what we would have done in this situation. What is the ulterior motive for this thread? That is the real question.
Posted on 2/26/17 at 10:06 am to OBReb6
quote:
This thread almost turned me gay, then I remembered my principles
Honestly, the Japanese needed a quite literal culture shock. They deserved it for their atrocities, frick them.
I wish we had dropped 3
Right, just like "the Americans" need to be taught a lesson for "their" participation in slavery amirite? Are we back to being cool with mass punishment? Hell, the Jews probably deserved it too for spoiling the pure German heritage amirite?
This is actually kind of fun. using your logic, I can justify all kinds of neat atrocities!
Posted on 2/26/17 at 10:08 am to joshnorris14
If they were ready for surrender then they would have tapped out an hour after the first bomb.
Posted on 2/26/17 at 10:09 am to MrCarton
Their entire population was bought in to their ideology, so I think they were justifiably destroyed
You can attempt to compare your other examples to them if you wish
You can attempt to compare your other examples to them if you wish
This post was edited on 2/26/17 at 10:10 am
Posted on 2/26/17 at 10:09 am to MrCarton
I didn't read the whole thread, so it has probably already been said. We dropped the bomb for two reasons:
1. Japan refused unconditional surrender. While we ultimately let them keep the emperor, they were going to do it on our terms, not theirs. So, unconditional surrender.
2. frick you Russia. Russia was coming down to wage war from the north. If we didn't drop the bomb and end the war, the Japs might be saluting Putin these days.
1. Japan refused unconditional surrender. While we ultimately let them keep the emperor, they were going to do it on our terms, not theirs. So, unconditional surrender.
2. frick you Russia. Russia was coming down to wage war from the north. If we didn't drop the bomb and end the war, the Japs might be saluting Putin these days.
This post was edited on 2/26/17 at 10:56 am
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