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Message
The True Fascists
Posted on 5/17/17 at 2:27 pm
Posted on 5/17/17 at 2:27 pm
I, like pretty much everyone who understands history and government in this country, have been watching so many of these liberal cry babies scream and throw temper tantrums about how conservatives are fascists and/or neo-nazis and wondering "Do these idiots have any idea what they're talking about?" So I figured I'd do what any person in this day and age would do if they didn't understand something.... I googled it. The result probably explains why so many of these looney tunes associate conservatism with fascism.
First thing that pops up on Google when you search "fascism definition"
fas·cism
'faSH?iz?m/Submit
noun
an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
synonyms: authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, despotism, autocracy; More
Now, anyone who understands history and government will know that associating fascism with modern day conservatism is pretty far fetched. Especially considering fascism is much more closely related to socialism and/or communism.
Whats really ironic is the strongest characteristic of fascism, suppression of opposing views. Now if this doesn't explain exactly what is happen with today's left wing movement, nothing does. They scream FASCIST and NAZI at those who disagree and prefer to silence them rather than have a conversation. I invite the liberals on this board to do a little soul searching. What is so wrong with open conversation and free speech? Is it that you're afraid your view points will be proven wrong? Are you afraid that what is said might hurt your feelings?
The whole purpose of open conversation and dialog is to come to a conclusion. I may not agree with you, but we can talk through it and possibly come to a mutually beneficial conclusion. We'll both give a little on our ideals but it would be in the best interest of all involved.
First thing that pops up on Google when you search "fascism definition"
fas·cism
'faSH?iz?m/Submit
noun
an authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization.
synonyms: authoritarianism, totalitarianism, dictatorship, despotism, autocracy; More
Now, anyone who understands history and government will know that associating fascism with modern day conservatism is pretty far fetched. Especially considering fascism is much more closely related to socialism and/or communism.
Whats really ironic is the strongest characteristic of fascism, suppression of opposing views. Now if this doesn't explain exactly what is happen with today's left wing movement, nothing does. They scream FASCIST and NAZI at those who disagree and prefer to silence them rather than have a conversation. I invite the liberals on this board to do a little soul searching. What is so wrong with open conversation and free speech? Is it that you're afraid your view points will be proven wrong? Are you afraid that what is said might hurt your feelings?
The whole purpose of open conversation and dialog is to come to a conclusion. I may not agree with you, but we can talk through it and possibly come to a mutually beneficial conclusion. We'll both give a little on our ideals but it would be in the best interest of all involved.
This post was edited on 5/17/17 at 2:30 pm
12
Posted on 5/17/17 at 2:30 pm to ibleedprplngld
From my understanding, fascism is more closely associated with authoritarian conservatism. Hence why it's piggy-backed on the nationalistic far right.
Posted on 5/17/17 at 2:32 pm to ibleedprplngld
this has been discussed before
fascism has always been considered to the far right, while communism has been considered to the far left
but they are right next to each if you view ideologies as a circle instead of linear
is there anyone on this board that is anti free speech?
fascism has always been considered to the far right, while communism has been considered to the far left
but they are right next to each if you view ideologies as a circle instead of linear
quote:
I invite the liberals on this board to do a little soul searching. What is so wrong with open conversation and free speech? Is it that you're afraid your view points will be proven wrong? Are you afraid that what is said might hurt your feelings?
is there anyone on this board that is anti free speech?
This post was edited on 5/17/17 at 2:32 pm
Posted on 5/17/17 at 2:35 pm to BigOrangeVols
quote:
From my understanding, fascism is more closely associated with authoritarian conservatism. Hence why it's piggy-backed on the nationalistic far right.
From Wikipedia
quote:
Fascism /'fæ??z?m/ is a form of radical authoritarian nationalism,[1][2] characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and control of industry and commerce,[3] that came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe.
quote:
Fascists believe that liberal democracy is obsolete, and they regard the complete mobilization of society under a totalitarian one-party state as necessary to prepare a nation for armed conflict and to respond effectively to economic difficulties.[8] Such a state is led by a strong leader—such as a dictator and a martial government composed of the members of the governing fascist party—to forge national unity and maintain a stable and orderly society.[8] Fascism rejects assertions that violence is automatically negative in nature and views political violence, war, and imperialism as means that can achieve national rejuvenation.[9][10][11][12] Fascists advocate a mixed economy, with the principal goal of achieving autarky through protectionist and interventionist economic policies.[13]
You sure that doesn't sound like modern day liberals? Or more specifically, ANTIFA?
Posted on 5/17/17 at 2:37 pm to ibleedprplngld
how great is it to watch people cry about people crying
good god, sack up. they're words
good god, sack up. they're words
Posted on 5/17/17 at 2:38 pm to ibleedprplngld
quote:In 2012 I would've agreed with you
Now, anyone who understands history and government will know that associating fascism with modern day conservatism is pretty far fetched.
Posted on 5/17/17 at 2:38 pm to ibleedprplngld
quote:
Now, anyone who understands history and government will know that associating fascism with modern day conservatism is pretty far fetched. Especially considering fascism is much more closely related to socialism and/or communism.
Just because Fascism was used by some communist governments doesn't mean that it is left-wing. It's all about strong affiliation to the state and nationalistic pride, but taken to dangerous extremes.
Modern-day "conservatism" isn't really all that conservative.
Posted on 5/17/17 at 3:00 pm to BigOrangeVols
quote:
authoritarian conservatism
Now there is an oxymoron if there ever was one.
Conservatism meaning LESS government control cannot be authoritarian.
I saw a quote once, maybe on this board that said, "Libertarians, diligently plotting take over the world and leave you alone."
Conservatives and Libertarians are much closer in their views as are they to any other.
This post was edited on 5/17/17 at 3:08 pm
Posted on 5/17/17 at 3:05 pm to BigOrangeVols
quote:
From my understanding, fascism is more closely associated with authoritarian conservatism
It's more about the state and the corporations merging. And when I say merge, I mean the government controls the corporations directly. Some fascist states might even nationalize private industry. Hitler, for instance, allowed private enterprise, but he kept strict controls on it. (By the way, Hitler never considered himself a fascist, he was a "national socialist" by his own description). I don't know as much about the Italian system, but it probably fits with the definition a bit more nicely than Hitler's Germany.
Fascists and communists are alike in many ways. They disagree on some details (like private enterprise and property ownership), but both agree that a huge centralized government is the way to go. They also agree about authoritarianism and strict control over individual liberty.
Conservatives believe in minimal government, individual rights and liberties, private enterprise, and strict checks and balances on the government. It is nothing at all like fascism.
Indeed, America is unique in that it really invented conservatism as we know it. The founders based their system on a few sources:
1) The Roman Republic (not the empire which came later)
2) Enlightenment philosophy which was already circulating in Europe at the time. Specifically, many of the founders were students of John Locke. Locke was skeptical of monarchy and promoted individual liberty. If there was any European who could be considered an "honorary" founding father, it would be Locke.
3) British common law
There was never a system like ours -- at least not since ancient Greece and the Roman Republic. For sure in 1776 there was nothing at all like us, as every country in Europe was still a monarchy.
Posted on 5/17/17 at 3:18 pm to Salmon
quote:No. The far right would encompass royalist, monarchists, which would be the antithesis of fascists. Especially the totalitarian kind of fascist (is there any other?). This is considerably leftward of the far right on the political spectrum. The only ones who have always considered fascism to be on the right would be the extreme Totalitarian Left, which perhaps is unwilling to look in the mirror and see itself there. Or hopes we won't.
fascism has always been considered to the far right, while communism has been considered to the far left
Posted on 5/17/17 at 3:21 pm to Salmon
quote:Shut up you filthy prog. We will be better off with you in the camps.
is there anyone on this board that is anti free speech?
Posted on 5/17/17 at 3:23 pm to ibleedprplngld
quote:
The whole purpose of open conversation and dialog is to come to a conclusion. I may not agree with you, but we can talk through it and possibly come to a mutually beneficial conclusion. We'll both give a little on our ideals but it would be in the best interest of all involved.
Impossible for socialist liberals to comprehend.
Posted on 5/17/17 at 3:26 pm to ibleedprplngld
quote:
They scream FASCIST and NAZI at those who disagree and prefer to silence them rather than have a conversation.
Please tell me which group on this board has called for journalist to be imprisoned and opposition to be silenced by force if necessary? Which side on this board has called for bloodshed against those their are politically opposed too?
Posted on 5/17/17 at 3:28 pm to ibleedprplngld
quote:
Now, anyone who understands history and government will know that associating fascism with modern day conservatism is pretty far fetched.
There is nothing modern day conservative about Trump and his Legion of mouthbreathers.
Posted on 5/17/17 at 3:51 pm to BigOrangeVols
quote:
From my understanding, fascism is more closely associated with authoritarian conservatism. Hence why it's piggy-backed on the nationalistic far right.
Nah. It's associated with behavior and policy. Which side..left or right..are acting like authoritarian behavioral facists? The ones wanting the Constitution upheld, or the ones rioting in the streets and destroying property? The ones open to other points of view and supporting a platform for those ideas to be expressed, or the ones blocking entrances and shutting down the invitations of speakers they disagree with? The ones who support free speech, or the ones who want certain words banned? The ones who believe in free association in business or the ones who demand you comply to their wants? There are many other comparisons. If you can provide a like list from the other side, feel free. I'd like to heard it. Maybe theres something I'm missing.
Posted on 5/17/17 at 4:12 pm to Dale51
Curious, isn't Nationalism just a way to control people - to give them a sense of purpose and belonging?
How is the Republican's using nationalism to pump up their base any different than the leftists use of Global Warming and social justice?
How is the Republican's using nationalism to pump up their base any different than the leftists use of Global Warming and social justice?
Posted on 5/17/17 at 4:16 pm to Speckhunter2012
quote:Does it though? It was the prevailing theme with the tea party, but some of the supposedly most conservative states have some very anti-small government policies.
Conservatism meaning LESS government control cannot be authoritarian.
quote:And oddly enough, libertarianism is essentially classical liberalism.
Conservatives and Libertarians are much closer in their views as are they to any other.
I think the idea of conservative and liberal is a lot more fluid then we realize as it relates to government power, although the core may stay the same (e.g., to conserve).
Posted on 5/17/17 at 4:16 pm to ibleedprplngld
Sounds Pretty Right-Wingish to me.
1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism
2. Disdain for the importance of human rights
3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause
4.The supremacy of the military/avid militarism
5.Rampant sexism
6.A controlled mass media
7.Obsession with national security
8.Religion and ruling elite tied together
9.Power of corporations protected
10.Power of labor suppressed or eliminated
11.Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts
12.Obsession with crime and punishment
13.Rampant cronyism and corruption
14.Fraudulent elections
Fascism has never been closely related to communism. It's not linear it's more like a matrix. Stalin was a Social Authoritarian so his authoritarianism is why you are making the mental leap to combine the two.
Because we humans are inherently flawed with an insatiable need to problem solve we often develop ideologies that try to fix societies problems. Often times this works, but there are also consequences to doing this, we also try to maximize benefit, which is usually done by those in charge of the system. This happens on both sides of the political spectrum. You shouldn't accept flaws in one side of the political spectrum without seeing the flaws in others.
1. Powerful and continuing expressions of nationalism
2. Disdain for the importance of human rights
3. Identification of enemies/scapegoats as a unifying cause
4.The supremacy of the military/avid militarism
5.Rampant sexism
6.A controlled mass media
7.Obsession with national security
8.Religion and ruling elite tied together
9.Power of corporations protected
10.Power of labor suppressed or eliminated
11.Disdain and suppression of intellectuals and the arts
12.Obsession with crime and punishment
13.Rampant cronyism and corruption
14.Fraudulent elections
Fascism has never been closely related to communism. It's not linear it's more like a matrix. Stalin was a Social Authoritarian so his authoritarianism is why you are making the mental leap to combine the two.
Because we humans are inherently flawed with an insatiable need to problem solve we often develop ideologies that try to fix societies problems. Often times this works, but there are also consequences to doing this, we also try to maximize benefit, which is usually done by those in charge of the system. This happens on both sides of the political spectrum. You shouldn't accept flaws in one side of the political spectrum without seeing the flaws in others.
Posted on 5/17/17 at 4:20 pm to acrossenemylinesmofo
quote:
Fascism has never been closely related to communism.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Are you a college professor by any chance?
Posted on 5/17/17 at 4:23 pm to Machine
quote:
how great is it to watch people cry about people crying
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