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Message
The history lesson Americans refuse to accept and keep repeating
Posted on 7/21/17 at 12:14 pm
Posted on 7/21/17 at 12:14 pm
One of the following was a government sponsored solution and one was a free market solution. Can you guess which is which?
A) This entity was given 18 years and over $2 million in today's dollars to invent manned flight. This entity failed.
B) This entity was given 4 years and $24k (actually their own money, not given to them, but go with me) in today's dollars to create manned flight and succeeded.
This is just one example of literally thousands. If people are really about finding the best solutions to problems (i don't think everyone is), we all need learn from these many lessons of our past.
A) This entity was given 18 years and over $2 million in today's dollars to invent manned flight. This entity failed.
B) This entity was given 4 years and $24k (actually their own money, not given to them, but go with me) in today's dollars to create manned flight and succeeded.
This is just one example of literally thousands. If people are really about finding the best solutions to problems (i don't think everyone is), we all need learn from these many lessons of our past.
7
Posted on 7/21/17 at 12:18 pm to notsince98
B) Who are the Wright Brothers?
A) Who cares since B was the important answer?
This is a game of jeopardy right? And I agree with your premise, by the way.
A) Who cares since B was the important answer?
This is a game of jeopardy right? And I agree with your premise, by the way.
This post was edited on 7/21/17 at 12:20 pm
Posted on 7/21/17 at 12:19 pm to notsince98
quote:
The history lesson Americans refuse to accept and keep repeating
Let's set a base line. You are an idiot.
"The legitimate object of government is to do for people what needs to be done." Lincoln made these comments on what role the government should play on July 1, 1854. Lincoln asked why government exists. "Why not each individual," he said, "take himself the whole fruit of his labor, without having any of it taxed away , , , ?" He answered saying that government should do what people cannot do by individual effort. Lincoln cited many examples of things that people cannot do on their own: making and maintaining roads and bridges, providing for the helpless, providing schools, and disposing of the deceased's property.
Other responsibilities of government, Lincoln pointed out, are because of the "injustice of men." These responsibilities include the forming and maintaining of the military, police, and civil departments. Lincoln said the government should protect its citizens and prevent them from committing wrongs. He said it was not the government's place to redress the wrongs of the world, but it "may, and ought to, redress all wrongs which are wrongs to the nation itself."
LINK
Posted on 7/21/17 at 12:26 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
A) Who cares since B was the important answer?
If anyone is/was interested A is Samuel Langley. He was given over $70k in grants by the military and Alexander Grahm Bell supposedly gave him over another $50k (I can't find a reference for this number yet).
Langley was a well educated, highly respected researcher. Wright bros were HS dropouts who made bikes and built a plane in their spare time on the side with their own money. I think the wright brothers ended up spending $1k or just over that to get it done in 4 years vs 18.
Posted on 7/21/17 at 12:28 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:Yet he's able to use the quote function when--you know--quoting people.
Let's set a base line. You are an idiot.
You seem to lack that capability, so if he's an idiot, then what does that say about you?
This post was edited on 7/21/17 at 12:38 pm
Posted on 7/21/17 at 12:29 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
Let's set a base line. You are an idiot.
"The legitimate object of government is to do for people what needs to be done." Lincoln made these comments on what role the government should play on July 1, 1854. Lincoln asked why government exists. "Why not each individual," he said, "take himself the whole fruit of his labor, without having any of it taxed away , , , ?" He answered saying that government should do what people cannot do by individual effort. Lincoln cited many examples of things that people cannot do on their own: making and maintaining roads and bridges, providing for the helpless, providing schools, and disposing of the deceased's property.
Other responsibilities of government, Lincoln pointed out, are because of the "injustice of men." These responsibilities include the forming and maintaining of the military, police, and civil departments. Lincoln said the government should protect its citizens and prevent them from committing wrongs. He said it was not the government's place to redress the wrongs of the world, but it "may, and ought to, redress all wrongs which are wrongs to the nation itself."
So let me get this straight.....
1) your first response is a personal attack. good for you.
2) you present quotes that clearly do not support the angle you are trying to present. Lets look at this:
quote:
He answered saying that government should do what people cannot do by individual effort.
Flight was accomplished by individual effort. The government clearly didn't need to be nor should have been involved with picking winners/losers. They picked badly and wasted a lot of taxpayer money.
This post was edited on 7/21/17 at 12:32 pm
Posted on 7/21/17 at 12:32 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:Then them arseholes need to show up and cut my grass.
"The legitimate object of government is to do for people what needs to be done."
Posted on 7/21/17 at 12:33 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
providing schools
So there were no schools before the government came in and created them?
:interdasting:
Posted on 7/21/17 at 12:48 pm to notsince98
quote:
Flight was accomplished by individual effort. The government clearly didn't need to be nor should have been involved with picking winners/losers. They picked badly and wasted a lot of taxpayer money.
Your viewing this through your modern lens and weighing it down with a bunch of ideological crap. It was in our nations interest to achieve flight, therefore, the government funded a number of scientists and established inventors - it wasn't picking a winner/loser;. The Wrights don't appear to have asked for funding and simply weren't in a position to obtain the funding since they were basically nobodies at the time. They did request information from the Smithsonian and used some of the prior work of researchers/inventors including the work of Langley.
Posted on 7/21/17 at 12:51 pm to cwill
quote:
Your viewing this through your modern lens and weighing it down with a bunch of ideological crap. It was in our nations interest to achieve flight, therefore, the government funded a number of scientists and established inventors - it wasn't picking a winner/loser;. The Wrights don't appear to have asked for funding and simply weren't in a position to obtain the funding since they were basically nobodies at the time. They did request information from the Smithsonian and used some of the prior work of researchers/inventors including the work of Langley.
and you are not learning from the past. I have no problems with the government buying products and services.
Time has shown us that the best way for the government to approach this stuff is to put a reward out there. Offer $xx to buy a product that meets your specifications. The free market will decide who to fund and capitalize on this revenue source.
It is perfectly fine for the free market to gamble its own money in ventures to make money. It is completely wrong for the government to gamble taxpayer funds.
Posted on 7/21/17 at 12:52 pm to notsince98
Wilkow?
Posted on 7/21/17 at 12:55 pm to notsince98
Langley did get an aircraft carrier after him though
Posted on 7/21/17 at 12:58 pm to gthog61
quote:
Langley did get an aircraft carrier after him though
He had quite a few successes as a researcher.
Posted on 7/21/17 at 12:59 pm to notsince98
quote:Someone's been reading David McCullough
If anyone is/was interested A is Samuel Langley. He was given over $70k in grants by the military and Alexander Grahm Bell supposedly gave him over another $50k (I can't find a reference for this number yet).
Langley was a well educated, highly respected researcher. Wright bros were HS dropouts who made bikes and built a plane in their spare time on the side with their own money. I think the wright brothers ended up spending $1k or just over that to get it done in 4 years vs 18.
Posted on 7/21/17 at 1:00 pm to notsince98
A simple concept that liberals and democrats can't understand. The market creates opportunity and innovation. Any problem worth solving is better served by individuals looking to make money off of it. Not a government program that has no real consequence or reward.
Posted on 7/21/17 at 1:04 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:For the record, USDA says it's not their job. I told them "but, it needs to be done".... no go.
"The legitimate object of government is to do for people what needs to be done."
-------
Then them arseholes need to show up and cut my grass.
$kidding of course...
Posted on 7/21/17 at 1:05 pm to notsince98
quote:
This is just one example of literally thousands. If people are really about finding the best solutions to problems (i don't think everyone is), we all need learn from these many lessons of our past.
Good point, but you have to give the government credit for some projects that are just out of the scope of the free market such as...
a) The Appolo Moon Project.
b) Interstate Highway System
c) Hoover Dam
There are some projects that are just too damn big and expensive for private enterprise to tackle and to be fair you'll have to give credit where credit is due.
Posted on 7/21/17 at 1:08 pm to notsince98
quote:
It is perfectly fine for the free market to gamble its own money in ventures to make money. It is completely wrong for the government to gamble taxpayer funds.
Completely? It's wrong for the government to use taxpayer money to seed projects that would provide a significant benefit to all taxpayers? Seeding inventors to develop manned flight was some crazy gamble? And if the government's record of investment isn't 100% perfect is that a lesson that the government should never fund invention?
These all or nothing arguments are sophomoric at best.
Posted on 7/21/17 at 1:09 pm to Tyrusrex
quote:
There are some projects that are just too damn big and expensive for private enterprise to tackle and to be fair you'll have to give credit where credit is due.
And a lot of the steps along the way to invention are not "money-making".
Posted on 7/21/17 at 1:10 pm to WhiskeyPapa
quote:
Let's set a base line. You are an idiot.
Well, this is a perfect opening line to have your argument ignored.
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