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The 2nd Amendment was always an individual right to bear arms against tyranny.

Posted on 11/12/16 at 3:43 am
Posted by SoulGlo
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
17248 posts
Posted on 11/12/16 at 3:43 am
We always hear about "common sense solutions for gun violence," and that the citizenry should not have "military-style" weapons.

The first casualties of the American Revolution were on Concord. British soldiers were looking for cannon when they came across the militia. Four of these cannon were from military installations, but the vast majority were private arms. Now in those days, the most advanced field weaponry was the cannon. Today, at minimum, it would be like having rocket launchers or even larger arms.

In other words, the American people, individually, had weaponry equivalent to that of the most powerful army in the world. Why then, would the founders write the Second Amendment for anything other than the peoples' defense from the State? Why on Earth would they codify a limit to the people's ability to possess certain weapons?

Also, when stuff was getting real, even the cannon from military posts were moved around by the colonists themselves and held outside of any armory by civilians. Why would they then intend for citizens' arms to be held in the possession of the government? If they had done that, the weapons would have been confiscated and the war would have been lost if fought at all.

Both of the arguments for gun control are directly contradicted by the actions of We the People at the start of the Revolution. Sorry, I don't buy that "well regulated" means "armory" or even what we now would see as stock, magazine, or firing rate restrictions.







For some Godawful reason, I started watching a book reading on CSPAN3. The author wrote a book telling the story of the cannon, two of which survived and are in museums. Yeah, don't judge.
This post was edited on 11/12/16 at 4:00 am
Posted by lsuroadie
South LA
Member since Oct 2007
8393 posts
Posted on 11/12/16 at 4:04 am to
preach.

the 2 A has been so thoroughly discussed on here with such astounding success that I couldn't possibly think why a lib would even broach the subject.
This post was edited on 11/12/16 at 4:05 am
Posted by TBoy
Kalamazoo
Member since Dec 2007
23646 posts
Posted on 11/12/16 at 4:32 am to
The Second Amendment is interpreted in a manner similar to what you describe, but this is a recent development. Don't peddle fake history.
Posted by lsuroadie
South LA
Member since Oct 2007
8393 posts
Posted on 11/12/16 at 5:31 am to
there's no recent development about it....the only reason to question its intent is liberals started to question the 2A and its validity. Within the last 25 yrs or so. Before then, there was no questions at all
Posted by TrueTiger
Chicken's most valuable
Member since Sep 2004
67649 posts
Posted on 11/12/16 at 5:39 am to
Also, it gets completely overlooked, but the 2A covers edged arms (knives, swords, battle axes, etc.), bows and crossbows as well.

Posted by Sancho Panza
La Habaña, Cuba
Member since Sep 2014
8161 posts
Posted on 11/12/16 at 5:43 am to
You'd think the old battle-axe herself would be all behind that.
Posted by McLemore
Member since Dec 2003
31438 posts
Posted on 11/12/16 at 6:04 am to
quote:

 Don't peddle fake history


Please
Posted by Eurocat
Member since Apr 2004
15035 posts
Posted on 11/12/16 at 8:37 am to
quote:

there's no recent development about it....the only reason to question its intent is liberals started to question the 2A and its validity. Within the last 25 yrs or so. Before then, there was no questions at all


Nope, it is a recent development.

In the two centuries following the adoption of the Bill of Rights, in 1791, no amendment received less attention in the courts than the Second, except the Third. As Adam Winkler, a constitutional-law scholar at U.C.L.A., demonstrates in a remarkably nuanced new book, “Gunfight: The Battle Over the Right to Bear Arms in America,” firearms have been regulated in the United States from the start. Laws banning the carrying of concealed weapons were passed in Kentucky and Louisiana in 1813, and other states soon followed: Indiana (1820), Tennessee and Virginia (1838), Alabama (1839), and Ohio (1859). Similar laws were passed in Texas, Florida, and Oklahoma. As the governor of Texas explained in 1893, the “mission of the concealed deadly weapon is murder. To check it is the duty of every self-respecting, law-abiding man.”

Although these laws were occasionally challenged, they were rarely struck down in state courts; the state’s interest in regulating the manufacture, ownership, and storage of firearms was plain enough. Even the West was hardly wild. “Frontier towns handled guns the way a Boston restaurant today handles overcoats in winter,” Winkler writes. “New arrivals were required to turn in their guns to authorities in exchange for something like a metal token.” In Wichita, Kansas, in 1873, a sign read, “Leave Your Revolvers at Police Headquarters, and Get a Check.” The first thing the government of Dodge did when founding the city, in 1873, was pass a resolution that “any person or persons found carrying concealed weapons in the city of Dodge or violating the laws of the State shall be dealt with according to law.” On the road through town, a wooden billboard read, “The Carrying of Firearms Strictly Prohibited.” The shoot-out at the O.K. Corral, in Tombstone, Arizona, Winkler explains, had to do with a gun-control law. In 1880, Tombstone’s city council passed an ordinance “to Provide against the Carrying of Deadly Weapons.” When Wyatt Earp confronted Tom McLaury on the streets of Tombstone, it was because McLaury had violated that ordinance by failing to leave his gun at the sheriff’s office.

The National Rifle Association was founded in 1871 by two men, a lawyer and a former reporter from the New York Times. For most of its history, the N.R.A. was chiefly a sporting and hunting association. To the extent that the N.R.A. had a political arm, it opposed some gun-control measures and supported many others, lobbying for new state laws in the nineteen-twenties and thirties, which introduced waiting periods for handgun buyers and required permits for anyone wishing to carry a concealed weapon. It also supported the 1934 National Firearms Act—the first major federal gun-control legislation—and the 1938 Federal Firearms Act, which together created a licensing system for dealers and prohibitively taxed the private ownership of automatic weapons (“machine guns”). The constitutionality of the 1934 act was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court in 1939, in U.S. v. Miller, in which Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s solicitor general, Robert H. Jackson, argued that the Second Amendment is “restricted to the keeping and bearing of arms by the people collectively for their common defense and security.” Furthermore, Jackson said, the language of the amendment makes clear that the right “is not one which may be utilized for private purposes but only one which exists where the arms are borne in the militia or some other military organization provided for by law and intended for the protection of the state.” The Court agreed, unanimously. In 1957, when the N.R.A. moved into new headquarters, its motto, at the building’s entrance, read, “Firearms Safety Education, Marksmanship Training, Shooting for Recreation.” It didn’t say anything about freedom, or self-defense, or rights.

The modern gun debate began with a shooting. In 1963, Lee Harvey Oswald bought a bolt-action rifle—an Italian military-surplus weapon—for nineteen dollars and ninety-five cents by ordering it from an ad that he found in American Rifleman. Five days after Oswald assassinated President Kennedy, Thomas Dodd, a Democratic senator from Connecticut, introduced legislation restricting mail-order sales of shotguns and rifles. The N.R.A.’s executive vice-president, Franklin L. Orth, testified before Congress, “We do not think that any sane American, who calls himself an American, can object to placing into this bill the instrument which killed the president of the United States.”


LINK

Posted by Crimson Wraith
Member since Jan 2014
24717 posts
Posted on 11/12/16 at 8:39 am to
quote:

The Second Amendment is interpreted in a manner similar to what you describe, but this is a recent development. Don't peddle fake history.




"shall not be infringed".
Posted by INFIDEL
The couch
Member since Aug 2006
16199 posts
Posted on 11/12/16 at 8:46 am to
Well, as long as the left cries for gun control, they'll remain beatable.
Posted by blueboy
Member since Apr 2006
56249 posts
Posted on 11/12/16 at 9:05 am to
quote:

"common sense solutions for gun violence,"
= eroding your 2nd amendment rights gradually until you have none. It's the same thing they did in Europe over several decades. They think we're stupid and can't figure that out.
Posted by Split2874
Mandeville
Member since Jul 2012
2437 posts
Posted on 11/12/16 at 9:08 am to
quote:

The 2nd Amendment was always an individual right to bear arms against tyranny.Posted on 11/12/16 at 3:43 am


I am not going to lie. I read that as trannies
Posted by shinerfan
Duckworld(Earth-616)
Member since Sep 2009
22188 posts
Posted on 11/12/16 at 9:32 am to
quote:

Eurocat




If its strictly a collective right to keep and bear arms as a militia under the control of the government, please tell us who this anticipated "infringer" might be? Just who is going to deny the State the right to keep and bear arms? Your defenseless citizenry? It's a moronic and disingenous argument.
Posted by SoulGlo
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
17248 posts
Posted on 11/12/16 at 9:44 am to
quote:

The Second Amendment is interpreted in a manner similar to what you describe, but this is a recent development. Don't peddle fake history.




The arguments I mentioned from the Left have been used by liberals from Hillary Clinton in this election all the way back to the 90's. I'll stop there, as I wasn't old enough before then to pay attention. Remember the "assault weapons" ban?

Both the armory and "military-style weapons" arguments have been consistently used ON THIS BOARD for over a decade. I had a discussion on Air America about gun control a few years ago and their ONLY arguments were "well regulated is an armory" and "nobody needs military-style guns."

Don't peddle fake history.
Posted by Turbeauxdog
Member since Aug 2004
23139 posts
Posted on 11/12/16 at 9:49 am to
quote:

Laws banning the carrying of concealed weapons were passed in Kentucky and Louisiana in 1813, and other states soon followed: Indiana (1820), Tennessee and Virginia (1838), Alabama (1839), and Ohio (1859). Similar laws were passed in Texas, Florida, and Oklahoma. As the governor of Texas explained in 1893, the “mission of the concealed deadly weapon is murder. To check it is the duty of every self-respecting, law-abiding man


The author is a buffoon. State laws prior to the 14th are irrelevant. Prior, the constitution never precluded states from doing anything.
Posted by shinerfan
Duckworld(Earth-616)
Member since Sep 2009
22188 posts
Posted on 11/12/16 at 9:53 am to
If he shows back up I'd really like an answer to my question as to who is going to infringe on the right of the government to keep and bear arms. I ask this everytime this comes up and they always seem to run away.
Posted by SoulGlo
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
17248 posts
Posted on 11/12/16 at 9:55 am to
quote:

Nope, it is a recent development.



Nice job referencing government infringing on the right to bear arms long after the framers of the 2nd Amendment were dead. Does that prove your point whatsoever? No.

Well, what are your answers for the questions in the OP?

Why would revolutionaries, who based their new government on self-governance, create laws that would remove their ability to buck off tyranny as they had just done?

Did they restrict cannon sales?
Did they round up the really good guns?
Please explain.
This post was edited on 11/12/16 at 10:00 am
Posted by SoulGlo
Shinin' Through
Member since Dec 2011
17248 posts
Posted on 11/12/16 at 12:13 pm to
Bump
Posted by ninthward
Boston, MA
Member since May 2007
20373 posts
Posted on 11/12/16 at 12:15 pm to
You linked the New Yorker
Posted by ninthward
Boston, MA
Member since May 2007
20373 posts
Posted on 11/12/16 at 12:18 pm to
"The right of the people"


Not the right of the militia.


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