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Posted on 11/21/16 at 9:33 am to MrCarton
quote:
Preparing for war, I hope?
I brought my battletoads.
Posted on 11/21/16 at 9:34 am to tke857
quote:And let's not confuse this with the Catholic Church endorsing abortions.
Pope Francis extends Catholic priests' right to forgive abortion
Posted on 11/21/16 at 9:37 am to GumboPot
quote:
This is NOTHING NEW.
exactly.
Posted on 11/21/16 at 9:39 am to DupontsCircle
quote:
FWIW as a Protestant I believe all sins are forgivable by God. I still can't figure out what right a priest has to do it.
Or the Pope
Posted on 11/21/16 at 9:40 am to DupontsCircle
Read the pope's actual quote:
"restate"means the pope is getting ready to tell us something that is already Church doctrine.
"grave" in the Church is synonymous with "mortal". Abortion has always been a mortal sin from the days of the Apostles as documented in the Didache a very simple holy book written by the Apostles that never made it into the bible in 396 AD...in that book the Apostles refereed to themselves as "The Way" and they clearly state abortion is a "grave" sin:
LINK (this book was written in the first century by the Apostles right after Jesus' Crucifixion sometimes refereed to as the first catechism.)
"no sin that God's mercy cannot reach" just refers to God's infinite mercy.
"finds a repentant heart seeking to be reconciled with the Father" just means that sins can only be forgiven by God through a repentant heart. I think that's pretty easy to understand.
With that said the pope's quote does NOT equal the media's quote:
Do you see how the media get's it wrong?
quote:
"I wish to restate as firmly as I can that abortion is a grave sin, since it puts an end to an innocent life. In the same way, however, I can and must state that there is no sin that God's mercy cannot reach and wipe away when it finds a repentant heart seeking to be reconciled with the Father,"
"restate"means the pope is getting ready to tell us something that is already Church doctrine.
"grave" in the Church is synonymous with "mortal". Abortion has always been a mortal sin from the days of the Apostles as documented in the Didache a very simple holy book written by the Apostles that never made it into the bible in 396 AD...in that book the Apostles refereed to themselves as "The Way" and they clearly state abortion is a "grave" sin:
quote:
Chapter 2. The Second Commandment: Grave Sin Forbidden. And the second commandment of the Teaching; You shall not commit murder, you shall not commit adultery, you shall not commit pederasty, you shall not commit fornication, you shall not steal, you shall not practice magic, you shall not practice witchcraft, you shall not murder a child by abortion nor kill that which is born.
LINK (this book was written in the first century by the Apostles right after Jesus' Crucifixion sometimes refereed to as the first catechism.)
"no sin that God's mercy cannot reach" just refers to God's infinite mercy.
"finds a repentant heart seeking to be reconciled with the Father" just means that sins can only be forgiven by God through a repentant heart. I think that's pretty easy to understand.
With that said the pope's quote does NOT equal the media's quote:
quote:
Pope Francis has extended the powers of Catholic priests to forgive abortions, making the announcement in an apostolic letter released Monday.
Do you see how the media get's it wrong?
Posted on 11/21/16 at 9:41 am to AustinTigr
quote:
It is spelled out clearly and logically in hundreds of books and websites... you guys would rather curse the darkness than light a candle and at least understand why the Church teaches what it does.
7
Except the one one boo...nevermind, not worth it.
You know, religious stuff is way worse than politics.
This post was edited on 11/21/16 at 9:42 am
Posted on 11/21/16 at 10:35 am to tke857
It isn't the right of a priest to determine if a person has a true repentant heart. Only God knows that and only He can truly grant forgiveness.
This is the Catholic Church trying to gain favor among progressives hoping to gain memberships
They always have and always will be about money.
This is the Catholic Church trying to gain favor among progressives hoping to gain memberships
They always have and always will be about money.
Posted on 11/21/16 at 10:50 am to DupontsCircle
quote:It's not about the priest, it's about the penitent taking ownership for his sin.
I still can't figure out what right a priest has to do it.
Posted on 11/21/16 at 11:41 am to arktiger28
quote:
Seems to me the Catholics have it easy navigating the changing culture. The Pope simply observes culture and adjusts doctrine accordingly. We Protestants don't have that luxury. At least not the ones that take scripture seriously.
So you protestants don't have the "luxury" of changing doctrine? Is that why the protestants are overly factionalized, supporting birth control, unsure about gay marriage (depends on denomination), and split on prosperity doctrine?
Its funny that you accuse the Pope of changing doctrine here. He isn't. Protestants do have the luxury of defining scripture from a personal, relative position(sola scriptura and individual opinion).
Your assertion that Catholics navigate culture by changing doctrine is severely flawed.
Posted on 11/21/16 at 11:47 am to deltaland
quote:
This is the Catholic Church trying to gain favor among progressives hoping to gain memberships
Right, the Pope discussing Reconciliation for abortion (so he is clearly calling abortion a sin here) is fishing for more progressive attendance.
They love that message, the one about abortion being a sin.
Posted on 11/21/16 at 11:55 am to DupontsCircle
quote:
I still can't figure out what right a priest has to do it.
Because that's the way Jesus intended it?
John 20:
21 Again Jesus said, “Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.” 22 And with that he breathed on them and said, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive anyone’s sins, their sins are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.”
It's obvious that the apostles viewed their positions as offices because they found a replacement for Judas in Acts. IOW, this authority was to be passed down. The apostles became Bishops, they died and were replaced and their authority was handed down. Pretty simple.
Posted on 11/21/16 at 11:58 am to GumboPot
quote:
It's my understanding that confessions were once public. In other words people confessed their sins to the church congregation asking God for forgiveness.
This is correct. During the first couple of centuries of the Church, confessions of sins were made in front of the entire congregation and the priest either chose to forgive or not forgive the sins.
Posted on 11/21/16 at 12:01 pm to tke857
What a pretentious bunch of nonsense. As if any man can decide what God forgives.
God will forgive all of your sins if you turn to Him and ask Him for forgiveness. He does not need a priest appointed by men to do that for Him.
God will forgive all of your sins if you turn to Him and ask Him for forgiveness. He does not need a priest appointed by men to do that for Him.
This post was edited on 11/21/16 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 11/21/16 at 12:03 pm to imjustafatkid
quote:
God will forgive all of your sins if you turn to Him and ask Him for forgiveness. He does not need a priest appointed by men to do that for Him.
Too bad you weren't there to set Jesus straight when he gave the authority to forgive sins to men.
Posted on 11/21/16 at 12:04 pm to tke857
quote:
Pope Francis extends Catholic priests' right to forgive abortion
Not going to go over well with a lot of Catholics.
Posted on 11/21/16 at 12:05 pm to arktiger28
quote:
Seems to me the Catholics have it easy navigating the changing culture. The Pope simply observes culture and adjusts doctrine accordingly. We Protestants don't have that luxury. At least not the ones that take scripture seriously.
I don't think you know what doctrine is, if you think the Pope can change it.
Posted on 11/21/16 at 12:08 pm to AUveritas
Yes, the Catholic church does twist and misinterpret that verse instead of taking it into context with all of the rest of Jesus' teachings. Jesus was saying something similar to what He had stated to the apostles many other times. He was saying to them, and us, that we are able to express when someone has been forgiven and to tell when people are burdened with sin. He stated this many times.
Only God has the power to forgive sins. He did not change that.
Only God has the power to forgive sins. He did not change that.
This post was edited on 11/21/16 at 12:10 pm
Posted on 11/21/16 at 12:08 pm to DupontsCircle
quote:
I still can't figure out what right a priest has to do it.
It is a gift given to the man by God through his Son, Jesus Christ.
Posted on 11/21/16 at 12:09 pm to AustinTigr
quote:
Until you have to look at another human in the eye and vocalize your worst sins, I question if you know what a contrite heart really feels like.
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