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Started By
Message
re: Maxine Waters labels Ruby Ridge incident as "domestic terrorism"
Posted on 9/11/17 at 5:44 am to Strannix
Posted on 9/11/17 at 5:44 am to Strannix
Many are posting in the thread that have no idea what happened and the order the events unfolded.
August 21, 1992
The government agents in the morning of the first shootout, came onto Randy's property for the back side. The family dog started to bark, Randy's son and Harris went outback to check it out.
Three (?) agents (the feds had already casted the land on the back side of Randy's house in May) in near head to foot in camo with no id on the uniforms to say they where government agents hide in the woods when the dog, son and helper come down from the house.
The firefight starts when the dog comes up on one of the agents in hiding and barks at him, the agent shoots the dog.It was likely Sammy may have killed the agent in this less than 2-4 second firefight. Randy's son turns to run to the house and makes only a few steps and is hit in the back and killed. Meanwhile Kevin Harris runs back to the house as agents opened up on Randy's son (Sammy), who was a little ahead of him.
This was only a scout mission that got out of hand on the feds part, the agents in question of course told a story that they were shot at first.
How the many stories grow, agents say they had ID on and identified themselves and Sammy shot first etc. But the evidence points to what Harris said in his story.
One shot is heard then a maybe 1 second another shot, then multiple shoot, no one in the house heard agents shouting Federal agents etc.
That is short version.
Questions are still did Harris fire a shot and why did the agents need another survey of Randy's land?
August 21, 1992
The government agents in the morning of the first shootout, came onto Randy's property for the back side. The family dog started to bark, Randy's son and Harris went outback to check it out.
Three (?) agents (the feds had already casted the land on the back side of Randy's house in May) in near head to foot in camo with no id on the uniforms to say they where government agents hide in the woods when the dog, son and helper come down from the house.
The firefight starts when the dog comes up on one of the agents in hiding and barks at him, the agent shoots the dog.It was likely Sammy may have killed the agent in this less than 2-4 second firefight. Randy's son turns to run to the house and makes only a few steps and is hit in the back and killed. Meanwhile Kevin Harris runs back to the house as agents opened up on Randy's son (Sammy), who was a little ahead of him.
This was only a scout mission that got out of hand on the feds part, the agents in question of course told a story that they were shot at first.
How the many stories grow, agents say they had ID on and identified themselves and Sammy shot first etc. But the evidence points to what Harris said in his story.
One shot is heard then a maybe 1 second another shot, then multiple shoot, no one in the house heard agents shouting Federal agents etc.
That is short version.
Questions are still did Harris fire a shot and why did the agents need another survey of Randy's land?
1
Posted on 9/11/17 at 8:19 am to VOR
quote:
So you settle that by hunkering down and trying to fight it ou? That's some stupid shite right there. It would have been easy to take care of it through legal channels. I tell clients all the time that there's no percentage in arguing with the cops during a traffic stop. Ruby Ridge was a horribly distorted version of that behavior, and it should never have happened.
I'd like to say that you're better than this - and while once you were, I really think that the HRC defeat has robbed you of whatever conscience you once had. You are no longer better than this.
This is pathetic.
Feds in camo begin shooting people in your deep back woods retreat, and you compare it to a traffic stop where the perp assaults the officer.
pathetic.
Posted on 9/11/17 at 8:24 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
And terrorism is not terrorism unless it effects the way the public lives their lives.
Nonsense
and did anyone notice that not one single example from Maxine the Dumb was of a black person committing an act of terror, all whites......... She's such a pile of shite.
Posted on 9/11/17 at 8:35 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
quote:
And terrorism is not terrorism unless it effects the way the public lives their lives.
=========
Nonsense
While that is not intended to be a universal and complete definition of terrorism, it is not 'nonsense.'
Bad things happen for the worst of reasons all the time. If there is a rapist/murderer operating in some suburb, certainly the people in that neighborhood feel threatened - but the nation does not consider it to be 'terrorism.' To do so would dilute the meaning of terrorism as applied to the real thing - like 9/11.
The very goal of terrorism is to make a whole people change their way of life. You can influence a local community to take better care of locking their doors until the local rapist/murderer is apprehended, but that doesn't even register in the thoughts of people in Detroit or Amarillo.
However, when some crackpot in San Diego shoots up a party while yelling 'aloha snackbar' then people all over the nation consider = 'how do i protect myself from this shite?'
That is all I meant with my fly-by quote. If you really think it is nonsense, then I pity your mental density. If you are just nit-picking because it is not a complete treatise on terrorism, then you disgust me as a waste of space and oxygen.
This post was edited on 9/11/17 at 8:37 am
Posted on 9/11/17 at 8:54 am to HeyHeyHogsAllTheWay
quote:
And terrorism is not terrorism unless it effects the way the public lives their lives.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Nonsense
Nope, he's correct. If not, then every act of violence would be considered terrorism.
Posted on 9/11/17 at 9:55 am to Roaad
quote:
They snuck in, undetected.
They surprised his 14-year old son in the woods.
They murdered the child and his dog.
THEY.
SHOT.
FIRST.
I just can't with you fascist fricks today.
The story I saw on documentary, backed up by Weaver's daughter, was that Randy, his son, and their friend went into the woods to scare off the Marshals, and they shot and killed one.
Son was killed in return fire.
Friend was also shot.
Then the FBI came in and really ran a shitshow.
And he was modifying weapons for who he thought were neo-nazis/supremacists.
ETA: this all happened because he didn't go to court.
This post was edited on 9/11/17 at 9:59 am
Posted on 9/11/17 at 10:25 am to Strannix
How can it be domestic terrorism if he just wanted to be left alone at his house? The FBI entrapped him into making sawed off shotguns, then sent the Marshals on him when he didn't appear at his court date.
I don't agree with many Weaver's beliefs, but he wasn't a terrorist in that situation
I don't agree with many Weaver's beliefs, but he wasn't a terrorist in that situation
This post was edited on 9/11/17 at 10:25 am
Posted on 9/11/17 at 10:29 am to magildachunks
quote:I believe law enforcement fired first. They shot and killed a dog, prompting the son to return fire.
The story I saw on documentary, backed up by Weaver's daughter, was that Randy, his son, and their friend went into the woods to scare off the Marshals, and they shot and killed one.
Son was killed in return fire.
Posted on 9/11/17 at 10:43 am to upgrayedd
quote:
I don't really know all the in's and out's of the story but, as I understand it, the ATF basically entrapped the father so they had a reason to go up there and wreck shop. That's pretty scary stuff.
That is basically the crux of it.
There is a documentary on Netflix about Ruby Ridge I watched recently. It was really well done.
The feds were 100% in the wrong.
Posted on 9/11/17 at 10:46 am to DEG
quote:
Meh. Weavers had bad intentions, and catalyzed some bad shite, so it's hard for me to feel sorry for him.
Do you know the story?
Posted on 9/11/17 at 10:46 am to Wild Thang
quote:
That is basically the crux of it. There is a documentary on Netflix about Ruby Ridge I watched recently. It was really well done. The feds were 100% in the wrong.
We may have watched the same one.
The FBI definitely fricked up and the training for these situations was changed because of this.
But again, he broke the law. It wasn't necessarily entrapment. And he refused to show up to court.
I was sentenced to six months for a missed court date. I served my time, and didn't try to get in a battle with LEO over it.
Posted on 9/11/17 at 10:48 am to magildachunks
quote:
It wasn't necessarily entrapment.
Yes it was.
Posted on 9/11/17 at 10:48 am to tigger1
quote:
This was only a scout mission that got out of hand on the feds part, the agents in question of course told a story that they were shot at first.
Agent convicted of destroying report critical of FBI
quote:
WASHINGTON — The former chief of the FBI's violent crimes section was sentenced to 18 months in prison Friday for destroying a report that criticized the bureau's role in the 1992 fatal shootout at a white supremacist's cabin in Ruby Ridge, Idaho.
Weaver was set up to be an informant, it didn't go the FBI's way. They shot first, they obstructed justice and were criticized for the way they handled the whole operation.
Anyone defending the FBI in this story is either ignorant or a bootlicker.
Posted on 9/11/17 at 10:48 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
I believe law enforcement fired first. They shot and killed a dog, prompting the son to return fire.
This is a hesaid/she said.
But anyone in this thread that backs the Weavers I would hope is also against no-knock warrants.
Posted on 9/11/17 at 10:52 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Weaver was set up to be an informant,
But he still did the crime.
And he thought he was doing it for a white supremacist.
He could have said no to the illegal activity
Posted on 9/11/17 at 10:53 am to magildachunks
quote:
against no-knock warrants.
I am against no-knock warrants except in extraordinary circumstances - just like I am agains war except in extraordinary circumstances.
But I can guarantee you that if I was living out in the woods for the purpose of 'unplugging' from the craziness of modern life, I would return fire immediately if I went out to investigate why my dog was barking and someone shot the dog and began shooting at me with no warning.
Posted on 9/11/17 at 10:57 am to magildachunks
quote:
But again, he broke the law. It wasn't necessarily entrapment. And he refused to show up to court.
His court date was in the future - he had not "'refused to show up" - yet.
quote:
I was sentenced to six months for a missed court date. I served my time, and didn't try to get in a battle with LEO over it.
6 months??? what was the charge??
Posted on 9/11/17 at 10:57 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
But I can guarantee you that if I was living out in the woods for the purpose of 'unplugging' from the craziness of modern life, I would return fire immediately if I went out to investigate why my dog was barking and someone shot the dog and began shooting at me with no warning.
But this isn't the story that even the Weaver's told on the documentary.
They knew it was Marshals and went out armed to confront them.
Marshals claim the dog scared one of them and the kid shot and killed the Marshal.
Btw: the Marshals only knew they had to serve a warrant. They were told to scout the land and we're not warned by FBI that Weaver could pose a danger.
They were scouting trails to see how to get to the house or prevent escape according to them.
The FBI gave them no intelligence they had already gathered.
This post was edited on 9/11/17 at 11:00 am
Posted on 9/11/17 at 10:59 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
6 months??? what was the charge??
Reckless driving.
Lawyer didn't show up after telling me I didn't have to because of work.
Five years later I go in front of a judge with no knowledge of even having a bench warrant.
Posted on 9/11/17 at 11:00 am to magildachunks
quote:
But this isn't the story that even the Weaver's told on the documentary.
They knew it was Marshals and went out armed to confront them.
Marshals claim the dog scared one of them and the kid shot and killed the Marshal.
Cannot argue the point - I have seen nothing on it since the original instance. My memory is quite old and probably not based on all available information, so I will withdraw from the debate.
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