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Started By
Message
Making America 1953 Again
Posted on 12/30/16 at 7:56 am
Posted on 12/30/16 at 7:56 am
quote:
Since 1900, the portion of the U.S. workforce in agriculture has declined from 41 percent to less than 2 percent. Output per remaining farmer and per acre has soared since millions of agricultural workers made the modernization trek from farms to more productive employment in city factories. Was this trek regrettable?
According to a Ball State University study, of the 5.6 million manufacturing jobs lost between 2000 and 2010, trade accounted for 13 percent of job losses and productivity improvements accounted for more than 85 percent: “Had we kept 2000-levels of productivity and applied them to 2010-levels of production, we would have required 20.9 million manufacturing workers [in 2010]. Instead, we employed only 12.1 million.” Is this regrettable? China, too, is shedding manufacturing jobs because of productivity improvements.
quote:
Levinson notes that Ronald Reagan imposed “voluntary restraints” on Japanese automobile exports, thereby creating 44,100 U.S. jobs. But the cost to consumers was $8.5 billion in higher prices, or $193,000 per job created, six times the average annual pay of a U.S. autoworker. And there were job losses in sectors of the economy into which the $8.5 billion of consumer spending could not flow. The Japanese responded by sending higher-end cars, from which they made higher profits, which they used to build North American assembly plants and to develop more expensive and profitable cars to compete with those of U.S. manufacturers.
LINK
George Cucking Will....Wapo fake news yada yada yada.
I've been trying to work out my own thoughts on globalism and its net impact on America and the world, but the these examples and statistics are pretty hard to argue against. Are they just globalist lies or is it impossible to artificially bring back something that has largely been decimated by productivity increases?
Anyone want to try and level a good argument against Mr. Will's? I am not equipped to do it.
As for that last quote. To a certain extent I wouldn't mind higher prices if it put a dent in our insanely wasteful consumerist sickness. Ohh, no...I can't afford to get a new smartphone every year. What ever will I do?
Posted on 12/30/16 at 7:59 am to AUbused
The search function is your friend.
Posted on 12/30/16 at 8:02 am to Radiojones
Meh, I looked back 8 pages and searched George Will and 1953.
Posted on 12/30/16 at 8:03 am to AUbused
quote:
Making America 1953 Again
Well now I'm going to be hard all day.
Posted on 12/30/16 at 8:04 am to AUbused
It's more of an acquaintance, really.
Posted on 12/30/16 at 8:04 am to AUbused
It isn't that hard to understand that the primary thing trump has been doing is encouraging new growth to happen in the US instead of outside of it.
Job losses to trade don't account for jobs that never were created in the first place.
Job losses to trade don't account for jobs that never were created in the first place.
Posted on 12/30/16 at 8:07 am to cokebottleag
That may be so, but part of doing that in Trumps own words means leveling tariffs on imports. George Will speaks to this directly with historic examples and makes pretty good points about the response to such actions by the market. Namely that the US may have created more jobs, but at the expense of the consumer and, as such, a zero sum game at best.
Posted on 12/30/16 at 8:15 am to AUbused
quote:
Namely that the US may have created more jobs, but at the expense of the consumer and, as such, a zero sum game at best
Obviously you will have to find the line you want to draw for the economy. You can either have more expensive stuff with better jobs and a better, independent (manufacturing) economy for your consumer or you can have cheaper stuff with either few or lesser jobs and a less sound, dependent economy.
Posted on 12/30/16 at 8:15 am to AUbused
What % of jobs lost since 1953 are due to trade vs automation? Picking 2000 as your start date is fricking silly
Posted on 12/30/16 at 8:20 am to AUbused
The consumer is a special interest group too. The US isn't just "consumers" it's also producers.
George Will, like many posters, ignores US trade history from 1789-1914. High tariffs are a useful tool to enable a nation to build a manufacturing sector, or expand an existing one.
In addition, tariffs aren't the only part of protectionism. We give slave labor unfettered access to our market, and allow the other nations to block our exports. That is not free trade, and tariffs, or the threat thereof, are useful tools which MUST be used to level the market. Unless slave labor and protectionism is your preferred status quo.
George Will, like many posters, ignores US trade history from 1789-1914. High tariffs are a useful tool to enable a nation to build a manufacturing sector, or expand an existing one.
In addition, tariffs aren't the only part of protectionism. We give slave labor unfettered access to our market, and allow the other nations to block our exports. That is not free trade, and tariffs, or the threat thereof, are useful tools which MUST be used to level the market. Unless slave labor and protectionism is your preferred status quo.
Posted on 12/30/16 at 8:28 am to cokebottleag
quote:
In addition, tariffs aren't the only part of protectionism. We give slave labor unfettered access to our market, and allow the other nations to block our exports. That is not free trade, and tariffs, or the threat thereof, are useful tools which MUST be used to level the market. Unless slave labor and protectionism is your preferred status quo.
Is there any necessary item that the USA cannot manufacture and/or produce all by itself???
btw - i'd love to have the traditional values of the 50's back again.
This post was edited on 12/30/16 at 8:30 am
Posted on 12/30/16 at 8:31 am to AUbused
You see it talked about in various forms here.
U.S. manufacturing has been increasing over the years, but not jobs.
There is probably some short term low hanging fruit that can be grabbed at early, but tariffs can't do anything about automation.
Not in the long term.
The basic idea for centuries has been that a person can trade his/her labor for money. The premise of that formula has always been that a person's labor has some market value.
But automation may blow away that premise. What if the day comes when a person's labor has no market value?
The discussion about guaranteed minimum income with come about more and more.
U.S. manufacturing has been increasing over the years, but not jobs.
There is probably some short term low hanging fruit that can be grabbed at early, but tariffs can't do anything about automation.
Not in the long term.
The basic idea for centuries has been that a person can trade his/her labor for money. The premise of that formula has always been that a person's labor has some market value.
But automation may blow away that premise. What if the day comes when a person's labor has no market value?
The discussion about guaranteed minimum income with come about more and more.
Posted on 12/30/16 at 8:36 am to ChineseBandit58
Yes, a lot of things actually.
I assume you missed the comments by the Taiwanese manufacturer who said they could not move to the US because we did not have the collection of necessary component manufacturing for end user small electronic products.
Manufacturing
I assume you missed the comments by the Taiwanese manufacturer who said they could not move to the US because we did not have the collection of necessary component manufacturing for end user small electronic products.
Manufacturing
Posted on 12/30/16 at 8:43 am to ChineseBandit58
quote:
Is there any necessary item that the USA cannot manufacture and/or produce all by itself???
Rare earth minerals.
Posted on 12/30/16 at 8:46 am to AUbused
If anything thinks that their wife is going to stop buying crap from Target to MAGA, they are delusional.
When America "Was Great" people had one set of flatware, one set of dishes, and a few pots. People might have owned one to two pairs of shoes and got them repaired.
Which old baws here are going tell their wife they get 2 pairs of shoes?
When America "Was Great" people had one set of flatware, one set of dishes, and a few pots. People might have owned one to two pairs of shoes and got them repaired.
Which old baws here are going tell their wife they get 2 pairs of shoes?
Posted on 12/30/16 at 8:48 am to mahdragonz
quote:
When America "Was Great" people had one set of flatware, one set of dishes, and a few pots. People might have owned one to two pairs of shoes and got them repaired.
It seems to me that, if that is the case, environmentalists should be all about it (barring going back to 50's pollution standards etc). I mentioned it in the OP, but I think our consumer society is a fricking wasteful sickness that adds very little to quality of life in comparison to getting outside or spending time with family. But thats just IMO of course.
Posted on 12/30/16 at 8:52 am to mahdragonz
We used to use the same coke bottles over and over.
Posted on 12/30/16 at 9:18 am to AUbused
1953 was great. Stalin died. Crime was low. A HS diploma meant something.
Posted on 12/30/16 at 10:10 am to zatetic
quote:
Rare earth minerals.
Forbes article about rare earth elements
In a nutshell rare earth minerals are not really rare.
This post was edited on 12/30/16 at 10:12 am
Posted on 12/30/16 at 10:23 am to AUbused
quote:That about sums it up.
George Cucking Will....Wapo fake news yada yada yada.
George and the WashPo do not understand or enunciate the difference between fair trade and protectionism. To layer on top of that the "1953" precept is just dumb.
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