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Started By
Message
Immigration ought to be a place where the national interest comes first, last, and always.
Posted on 10/13/17 at 3:03 pm
Posted on 10/13/17 at 3:03 pm
Slightly edited to fit as title. Full sentence is:
Excerpted from testimony given to the House of Representatives.
Primary points, as enumerated:
1. "The Commission believes that legal immigration has strengthened the country and that it continues to do so.... Unlawful immigration is unacceptable."
2. "We believe that employer sanctions can work, but only with a reliable system for verifying authorization to work. Employers want to obey the law, but they are caught now between a rock and a hard place. The current system is based on documents. An employer must either accept those documents, knowing that they might be forged, and thus live with the vulnerability to employer sanctions for hiring someone presenting false identification. Or, an employer may choose to ask particular workers for more documentation, which is discrimination. "
3. "Citizenship and naturalization should be more central to the process of immigration. There are many barriers to naturalizing in law and practice, and they should be removed. But it is a debasement of the concept of citizenship to make it the route to welfare."
4. "Fourth, deportation is crucial. Credibility in immigration policy can be summed up in one sentence: those who should get in, get in; those who should be kept out, are kept out; and those who should not be here will be required to leave."
5. "Fifth, emergency management. Migration emergencies such as we have seen recently with Haiti and Cuba do recur, and we must be prepared for them. Again, we will have detailed recommendations on migration emergencies. "
6. "The current debate over the economic impact of immigration is marked by shaky statistics, flawed assumptions, and an amazing range of contradictory conclusions from what ought to be commonly-accepted methods. Rather than attempt to choose sides in this discussion, the Commission has contracted with the National Academy of Sciences to analyze the methods used for evaluating immigration data, to cut through this fog. "
7. "Seventh, much as we support enhanced enforcement by this country, we must face the fact that unilateral action on the part of the United States will never be enough to curb illegal immigration. Immigrants come here illegally from source countries where conditions prevail that encourage or even compel them to leave. Attacking the root causes of illegal migration is essential and will require international cooperation. "
8. "The Commission on Immigration Reform endorsed a border crossing fee in principle as a user fee. It should not go into the general treasury. ...We applaud the efforts of innovative Border Patrol leaders, such as Silvestre Reyes with Operation Hold the Line in El Paso, and we must do our part, as well. " (Silvestre Reyes, who was the head of the El Paso Border Control at the time, ordered his officers to form a human and vehicle blockade along the border. There were four hundred agents and vehicles every 100 yards from one side of El Paso to the other, in order to prevent illegal immigration.
In a piece written for the NYT,
For all the Trumpbashers on here, tell me any part of this where you can find something he has said that contradicts the above.
How did this country ever allow someone as racist as Barbara Jordan to hold public office and advise President Clinton?
quote:
But immigration, like foreign policy, ought to be a place where the national interest comes first, last, and always.
Excerpted from testimony given to the House of Representatives.
Primary points, as enumerated:
1. "The Commission believes that legal immigration has strengthened the country and that it continues to do so.... Unlawful immigration is unacceptable."
2. "We believe that employer sanctions can work, but only with a reliable system for verifying authorization to work. Employers want to obey the law, but they are caught now between a rock and a hard place. The current system is based on documents. An employer must either accept those documents, knowing that they might be forged, and thus live with the vulnerability to employer sanctions for hiring someone presenting false identification. Or, an employer may choose to ask particular workers for more documentation, which is discrimination. "
3. "Citizenship and naturalization should be more central to the process of immigration. There are many barriers to naturalizing in law and practice, and they should be removed. But it is a debasement of the concept of citizenship to make it the route to welfare."
4. "Fourth, deportation is crucial. Credibility in immigration policy can be summed up in one sentence: those who should get in, get in; those who should be kept out, are kept out; and those who should not be here will be required to leave."
5. "Fifth, emergency management. Migration emergencies such as we have seen recently with Haiti and Cuba do recur, and we must be prepared for them. Again, we will have detailed recommendations on migration emergencies. "
6. "The current debate over the economic impact of immigration is marked by shaky statistics, flawed assumptions, and an amazing range of contradictory conclusions from what ought to be commonly-accepted methods. Rather than attempt to choose sides in this discussion, the Commission has contracted with the National Academy of Sciences to analyze the methods used for evaluating immigration data, to cut through this fog. "
7. "Seventh, much as we support enhanced enforcement by this country, we must face the fact that unilateral action on the part of the United States will never be enough to curb illegal immigration. Immigrants come here illegally from source countries where conditions prevail that encourage or even compel them to leave. Attacking the root causes of illegal migration is essential and will require international cooperation. "
8. "The Commission on Immigration Reform endorsed a border crossing fee in principle as a user fee. It should not go into the general treasury. ...We applaud the efforts of innovative Border Patrol leaders, such as Silvestre Reyes with Operation Hold the Line in El Paso, and we must do our part, as well. " (Silvestre Reyes, who was the head of the El Paso Border Control at the time, ordered his officers to form a human and vehicle blockade along the border. There were four hundred agents and vehicles every 100 yards from one side of El Paso to the other, in order to prevent illegal immigration.
In a piece written for the NYT,
quote:
There is a word for this process: Americanization. That word earned a bad reputation when it was stolen by racists and xenophobes in the 1920's. But it is our word, and we are taking it back. Americanization means becoming a part of the polity -- becoming one of us. But that does not mean conformity. We are more than a melting pot; we are a kaleidoscope, where every turn of history refracts new light on the old promise.
Immigration imposes mutual obligations. Those who choose to come here must embrace the common core of American civic culture. We must assist them in learning our common language: American English. We must renew civic education in the teaching of American history for all Americans. We must vigorously enforce the laws against hate crimes and discrimination. We must remind ourselves, as we illustrate for newcomers, what makes us America.
For all the Trumpbashers on here, tell me any part of this where you can find something he has said that contradicts the above.
How did this country ever allow someone as racist as Barbara Jordan to hold public office and advise President Clinton?
Posted on 10/13/17 at 3:05 pm to Ag Zwin
Deportation breaks up families. Most of these people came here for a better life and are doing jobs Americans won't do. No human is illegal
Posted on 10/13/17 at 3:08 pm to Ag Zwin
quote:
1. "The Commission believes that legal immigration has strengthened the country and that it continues to do so.... Unlawful immigration is unacceptable."
So while cracking down on unlawful immigration (which I agree with) we should be expanding legal immigration (which most Trumpkins disagree with).
That is the crux of the dispute.
That said, I have been a proponent of this idea for awhile:
quote:
"The Commission on Immigration Reform endorsed a border crossing fee in principle as a user fee. It should not go into the general treasury.
Posted on 10/13/17 at 3:09 pm to Ag Zwin
quote:The amazing range of "George Borjas" and "pretty much every economist not named George Borjas"
The current debate over the economic impact of immigration is marked by shaky statistics, flawed assumptions, and an amazing range of contradictory conclusions
Posted on 10/13/17 at 3:11 pm to BigJim
quote:
legal immigration (which most Trumpkins disagree with).
Has there been a reputable polling of Trump supporters on their position on legal immigration?
Hard to imagine most being opposed.
Posted on 10/13/17 at 3:11 pm to el Gaucho
quote:
doing jobs Americans won't do.
I never understood where this notion came from, or what it even means.
Posted on 10/13/17 at 3:13 pm to el Gaucho
quote:
Deportation breaks up families. Most of these people came here for a better life and are doing jobs Americans won't do. No human is illegal
Solid.
Posted on 10/13/17 at 3:16 pm to Y.A. Tittle
One second they are bragging about how automation will put your stupid hick middle class arse out of a job all while saying pedro is absolutely needed for his low skilled labor the next. Personally, I'd gladly pay a dollar more for a pint of strawberries than be burden with the cost of supporting Mexico's underclass.
Posted on 10/13/17 at 3:17 pm to el Gaucho
I have no problem with them coming here to make a better life for themselves, but it has to be done with in the legal framework. But when a illegal immigrant does harm to a citizen of our country,you have to understand the resentment it creates.
Posted on 10/13/17 at 3:18 pm to Erin Go Bragh
The people opposed to immigration and so called "illegal immigration" are either afraid of losing their job to a more skilled harder working Hispanic or are bigots afraid of vibrant Latino culture
This post was edited on 10/13/17 at 3:28 pm
Posted on 10/13/17 at 3:20 pm to Ag Zwin
You're obviously a racist. It reminds me of that old quote. It went something like this:
'First they came for the blacks. But I was not black so I said nothing.
Then they came for the Mexicans. But I was not Mexican so I said nothing.
Then everything was great so they stopped coming for people.'
'First they came for the blacks. But I was not black so I said nothing.
Then they came for the Mexicans. But I was not Mexican so I said nothing.
Then everything was great so they stopped coming for people.'
Posted on 10/13/17 at 3:20 pm to BigJim
quote:
So while cracking down on unlawful immigration (which I agree with) we should be expanding legal immigration (which most Trumpkins disagree with).
Possibly the biggest red herring of the debate. Show me where polling backs this up.
No anecdotes. Not an Op-Ed on Breitbart. Hard data.
Posted on 10/13/17 at 3:22 pm to BigJim
quote:
So while cracking down on unlawful immigration (which I agree with) we should be expanding legal immigration (which most Trumpkins disagree with).
What exactly do you mean by expanded legal immigration?
Posted on 10/13/17 at 3:22 pm to el Gaucho
quote:
The people opposed to immigration and so called "illegal immigration" are either afraid of losing their job to a more skilled harder working Hispanic or are bigots afraid of spicy Latino culture
Eh...not as good. The spicy bit kind of makes it obvious.
This post was edited on 10/13/17 at 3:23 pm
Posted on 10/13/17 at 3:23 pm to Centinel
Dude you know he is still gonna catch a bunch of baws with that shite. It's like no one here ever learns.
Posted on 10/13/17 at 3:23 pm to HempHead
quote:
What exactly do you mean by expanded legal immigration?
And where is that anywhere in the OP?
Posted on 10/13/17 at 3:25 pm to Ag Zwin
quote:LINK
Possibly the biggest red herring of the debate. Show me where polling backs this up. No anecdotes. Not an Op-Ed on Breitbart. Hard data.
These are the crosstabs of a POLITICO poll on the RAISE Act. You want Table POL5_8.
quote:Trump voter crosstab is two pages down.
When it comes to legal immigration, do you believe the United States allows too many, too few, or about the right number of each of the following?
The number of legal immigrants as a whole
quote:
2016 Vote: Republican Donald Trump
Too many 52%
Too few 5%
About right 32%
DK/No Opinion 11%
Posted on 10/13/17 at 3:27 pm to Ag Zwin
quote:
deportation is crucial
if you deport my base, then how am I supposed to stay in power?
its a numbers game. Why do you think dims fight so hard against ID restrictions?
if we had a hard core iron clad national voter ID card system in place and well established, I doubt you'd see it such a point of emphasis from the left. They would piviot away from borders and immigration and on to citizenship and naturalization processes and procedures.
Posted on 10/13/17 at 3:27 pm to hwyman108
quote:
I have no problem with them coming here to make a better life for themselves, but it has to be done with in the legal framework. But when a illegal immigrant does harm to a citizen of our country,you have to understand the resentment it creates.
Yes but the immigration process takes like 2 years and for folks that's kids are hungry now that is a long time to wait
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