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Message
How did healthcare get so messed up? A history lesson.
Posted on 3/24/17 at 10:57 am
Posted on 3/24/17 at 10:57 am
Our current cluster**** all boils down to 2 different perspectives; Democrats who feel healthcare is a right, and Republicans who feel it isn't.
However, it is the legislative actions of Republicans who first made it a right, and have created an unsustainable situation.
Back in the day, it was common for sick (and pregnant) people to be turned away from hospitals and emergency rooms if they couldn't produce proof of insurance. People who could have been saved were dying out on the curb instead of being treated. This may be news to you if you are young, but this used to happen a lot.
You have all heard of COBRA (Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act), well part of that was the EMTALA (Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act) which put a stop to this barbarism. Now, hospitals HAD to treat women in labor and people with life-threatening illnesses if they received any federal money (which is most hospitals).
So, the United States put into place a humane sounding practice which is really the least economically efficient way to treat people. It is exponentially cheaper to give people preventative care instead of having them repeatedly go to the emergency room.
Who socialized healthcare in this economically inefficient way? The President who signed it into law was Ronald Reagan.
If healthcare isn't a right, overturn the EMTALA, and take us back to people dying on the curb outside of hospitals across the country.
However, it is the legislative actions of Republicans who first made it a right, and have created an unsustainable situation.
Back in the day, it was common for sick (and pregnant) people to be turned away from hospitals and emergency rooms if they couldn't produce proof of insurance. People who could have been saved were dying out on the curb instead of being treated. This may be news to you if you are young, but this used to happen a lot.
You have all heard of COBRA (Consolidated Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act), well part of that was the EMTALA (Emergency Medical Treatment and Active Labor Act) which put a stop to this barbarism. Now, hospitals HAD to treat women in labor and people with life-threatening illnesses if they received any federal money (which is most hospitals).
So, the United States put into place a humane sounding practice which is really the least economically efficient way to treat people. It is exponentially cheaper to give people preventative care instead of having them repeatedly go to the emergency room.
Who socialized healthcare in this economically inefficient way? The President who signed it into law was Ronald Reagan.
If healthcare isn't a right, overturn the EMTALA, and take us back to people dying on the curb outside of hospitals across the country.
This post was edited on 3/24/17 at 10:58 am
24
Posted on 3/24/17 at 10:59 am to Greatest Success
quote:
How did healthcare get so messed up?
Insurance.
Posted on 3/24/17 at 11:02 am to Greatest Success
No, the foundations of our fricked up system started way before that. The AMA kicked things off by limiting competition in the marketplace. Then along comes FDR and his frickery w wage controls which led to employer sponsored health insurance.
This post was edited on 3/24/17 at 9:41 pm
Posted on 3/24/17 at 11:02 am to Greatest Success
You need to go back further to FDR who put unconstitutional wage freezes on industries during the 1930s which resulted in companies offering health insurance to potential employees for recruitment. This linked healthcare coverage with employment for the next eight decades.
Posted on 3/24/17 at 11:04 am to cwill
quote:
Insurance.
Insurance is awesome. It's probably one the greatest market concepts ever. The problem is we don't have medical insurance in this country.
Posted on 3/24/17 at 11:06 am to cwill
quote:This. Prople have come to believe they should not be responsible for their own expenses. And it's not just democrats.
quote:
How did healthcare get so messed up?
Insurance.
This post was edited on 3/24/17 at 11:07 am
Posted on 3/24/17 at 11:08 am to Antonio Moss
That was due to fear of rapid inflation that you we're seeing in Germany at the time, which considering the gov spending, was a real threat.
Besides, all fringe benefits did was provide a work around for the wage freezes. The price equilibrium ultimately corrected itself.
Besides, all fringe benefits did was provide a work around for the wage freezes. The price equilibrium ultimately corrected itself.
Posted on 3/24/17 at 11:08 am to Antonio Moss
quote:
You need to go back further to FDR who put unconstitutional wage freezes on industries during the 1930s which resulted in companies offering health insurance to potential employees for recruitment.
That created the relationship between compensation & insurance, but what caused healthcare costs to spiral out of control was the EMTALA. If Republicans insist it isn't a right, man up, and eliminate Reagan's law.
Posted on 3/24/17 at 11:26 am to Greatest Success
And don't forget that Reagan also privatized hospitals and deinstitutionalized the country. The mess we are in is a product of both parties so this "Blame it on Obamacare" should stop.
Posted on 3/24/17 at 11:27 am to Taxing Authority
quote:
This. Prople have come to believe they should not be responsible for their own expenses.
The cost of medical care has ballooned to the point where no one can possible afford their own healthcare expenses.
Posted on 3/24/17 at 11:29 am to Greatest Success
Nah. Decades of "progressive" frickery led up to this.
Posted on 3/24/17 at 11:34 am to Pinecone Repair
quote:
Nah. Decades of "progressive" frickery led up to this.
The most progressive & liberal thing ever done in this country related to healthcare was the EMTALA signed by Reagan.
Still, everyone should calm down. Win or lose on his healthcare bill, the president will golf this weekend.
Posted on 3/24/17 at 11:48 am to Greatest Success
quote:
So, the United States put into place a humane sounding practice which is really the least economically efficient way to treat people. It is exponentially cheaper to give people preventative care instead of having them repeatedly go to the emergency room.
I am not opposed to humane activities by the government in critical situations. Same as sending the National Guard in to rescue victims of a hurricane - or the mission of the Coast Guard.
People with genuine emergencies ought to be treated in Emergency Rooms for life saving situations without delay for payment assurance.
Women who show up pregnant represent such a situation = to save the life of the child, but the woman ought to be liable for the expenses. Same with druggies - save their lives but make them liable for expenses - to be deducted from any payments they receive from anywhere, especially the govt.
The nonsense of going to the ER with a runny nose ought to be eliminated entirely - and repeated abuses should be penalized.
Insurance is the way to take care of unforeseen calamity. Pregnancy is a silly thing to 'insure' against. Either plan to pay for the pregnancy, or don't get pregnant.
Once you start "insuring" preventative care, you are just pissing in the wind - it is a ridiculous concept. Call it a 'medical plan' and pay the premiums - but don't call it 'insurance,' thereby making everyone who just wants protection against catastrophic events to pay for your throat lozenges.
The whole thing is messed up. We need to return to 'pay for service' and purchase insurance against unforeseen calamities.
Posted on 3/24/17 at 11:59 am to Greatest Success
True answer is Government intervention in the free market caused the problem
Health care costs track inflation forever until the government started meddling in it.
After these laws the problem started.
1965 Congress passes Medicaid and Medicare, while at the same time restricting the supply of doctors.
1972 Congress enacted legislation that restricted the supply of hospitals by requiring federal certificate-of-need for the construction of medical facilities
1984 Drug Price Competition and Patent Term Restoration Act permitted the extension of patents beyond 20 years
1986, Congress enacted the Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) to ensure public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay
2003 Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act provided subsidies to the elderly for drugs
Medical costs completely followed inflation until after 1965 when its current trajectory started. It has absolutely followed the same exact curve since then.
Health care costs track inflation forever until the government started meddling in it.
After these laws the problem started.
1965 Congress passes Medicaid and Medicare, while at the same time restricting the supply of doctors.
1972 Congress enacted legislation that restricted the supply of hospitals by requiring federal certificate-of-need for the construction of medical facilities
1984 Drug Price Competition and Patent Term Restoration Act permitted the extension of patents beyond 20 years
1986, Congress enacted the Emergency Medical Treatment & Labor Act (EMTALA) to ensure public access to emergency services regardless of ability to pay
2003 Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement, and Modernization Act provided subsidies to the elderly for drugs
Medical costs completely followed inflation until after 1965 when its current trajectory started. It has absolutely followed the same exact curve since then.
This post was edited on 3/24/17 at 12:01 pm
Posted on 3/24/17 at 12:01 pm to ChineseBandit58
quote:
People with genuine emergencies ought to be treated in Emergency Rooms for life saving situations without delay for payment assurance.
quote:
Women who show up pregnant represent such a situation = to save the life of the child, but the woman ought to be liable for the expenses. Same with druggies - save their lives but make them liable for expenses - to be deducted from any payments they receive from anywhere, especially the govt.
These people will never have the money. Never.
You are living in a fantasy land.
You have to be an adult and make a difficult choice. Either let the poor/uninsured die on the curb or structure your healthcare vision around it being a right.
There is no logical middle-ground.
Posted on 3/24/17 at 12:01 pm to Greatest Success
Government.
Thread/
Thread/
Posted on 3/24/17 at 12:03 pm to Loserman
quote:
True answer is Government intervention in the free market caused the problem
In your lifetime, do you expect a single Republican to ever run for any office on the platform on fully repealing Medicaid, Medicare and EMTALA?
Posted on 3/24/17 at 12:05 pm to Greatest Success
quote:
How did healthcare get so messed up?
Because instead of having fully gov-controlled healthcare or fully free-market healthcare, we have a weird hybrid which is partially propped up by the government in a way that creates huge incentives for inefficiencies.
This post was edited on 3/24/17 at 12:11 pm
Posted on 3/24/17 at 12:11 pm to Greatest Success
quote:
In your lifetime, do you expect a single Republican to ever run for any office on the platform on fully repealing Medicaid, Medicare and EMTALA?
No I do not.
Our country is failing and there is no stopping it.
No one has the temerity to do that which is necessary.
Posted on 3/24/17 at 12:23 pm to Greatest Success
quote:
That created the relationship between compensation & insurance, but what caused healthcare costs to spiral out of control was the EMTALA. If Republicans insist it isn't a right, man up, and eliminate Reagan's law.
Completely wrong. While EmTAlA did lead to increased costs, the rate of growth of Heath spending began to soar in the 60s and 70s, many years before he signed that
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