House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th | Page 2 | TigerDroppings.com
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Rex
LSU Fan
Here, there, and nowhere
Member since Sep 2004
58500 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th

quote:

They cannot deny them, they can rule that she waived them and has to testify.

They can rule anything they like but they can't force her to testify, as a matter of the Constitution. She did not waive her rights by proclaiming her innocence, and as a witness she was entitled to plead the Fifth on individual questions, anyway.



FalseProphet
LSU Fan
Mecca
Member since Dec 2011
7442 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th
quote:

They cannot deny them, they can rule that she waived them and has to testify.


A Congressional committee can rule on a legal issue? News to me, if true. They can make a finding that she waived them, but they can't do anything about it.


Vols&Shaft83
Tennessee Fan
Member since Dec 2012
24577 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th
quote:

They can make a finding that she waived them, but they can't do anything about it.


She is subject to recall


FalseProphet
LSU Fan
Mecca
Member since Dec 2011
7442 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th
quote:

She is subject to recall


So? She shows up, they find that she waived her Fifth Amendment testimony, and then she says she didn't.

They can't force her to do anything.


BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
17754 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th
They can hold her in contempt. That's about it though


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Vols&Shaft83
Tennessee Fan
Member since Dec 2012
24577 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th
quote:

They can't force her to do anything.


Nope, but she can be held in Contempt, in Federal F.M.I.T.A. jail..........But she may be into that


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Decatur
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2007
17777 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th
quote:

Had this been an actual criminal trial, in an actual courtroom, and had Lerner been an actual defendant, then yes, it would not have been permissible for her to testify in her own defense and then refuse cross-examination on Fifth Amendment grounds. But a congressional hearing is not a criminal trial in two important ways, Duane tells Daily Intelligencer.

First, unlike in a trial, where she could choose to take the stand or not, Lerner had no choice but to appear before the committee. Second, in a trial there would be a justifiable concern about compromising a judge or jury by providing them with "selective, partial presentation of the facts." But Congress is merely pursuing information as part of an investigation, not making a definitive ruling on Lerner's guilt or innocence.

"When somebody is in this situation," says Duane, a Harvard Law graduate whose 2008 lecture on invoking the Fifth Amendment with police has been viewed on YouTube nearly 2.5 million times, "when they are involuntarily summoned before grand jury or before legislative body, it is well settled that they have a right to make a 'selective invocation,' as it's called, with respect to questions that they think might raise a meaningful risk of incriminating themselves."

In fact, Duane says, "even if Ms. Lerner had given answers to a few questions — five, ten, twenty questions — before she decided, 'That's where I draw the line, I'm not answering any more questions,' she would be able to do that as well." Such uses of selective invocation "happen all the time."


LINK


Interception
Providence Fan
Member since Nov 2008
11089 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th
I've spoken to several attorneys about this issue and they all say her statement essentially waived her 5th Amendment rights. Alan Dershowitz wrote a book on this very topic and insist if she is called back to testify and refuses she could be held in contempt. You can't give a written statement then not allow members of the committee to challenge your statement. It just doesn't work that way.

quote:

Dershowitz said the "law is as clear as it could be" on the subject.

"Once you open up an area of inquiry, you can't shut off the spigot – that's the metaphor that the Supreme Court has used," he said.






Interception
Providence Fan
Member since Nov 2008
11089 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th
quote:

They can rule anything they like but they can't force her to testify, as a matter of the Constitution. She did not waive her rights by proclaiming her innocence, and as a witness she was entitled to plead the Fifth on individual questions, anyway
.


The legal precedent states that you cannot be compelled to testify. She showed up and testified via her opening statement on the subject, thus, she waived her right not to continue that testimony.

Her attorney should have never let her read that statement. You plea the 5th and go make a statement outside. It was a huge mistake of epic proportions.


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Vols&Shaft83
Tennessee Fan
Member since Dec 2012
24577 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th
quote:

Decatur


Alan fricking Dershowitz says you're a fricking moron, and that he hopes you rot in hell.




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Decatur
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2007
17777 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th
quote:

I've spoken to several attorneys about this issue and they all say her statement essentially waived her 5th Amendment rights.


In a civil proceeding in front of Congress where she was forced to appear by subpoena?

Can you cite any authority for this?

quote:

Alan Dershowitz wrote a book on this very topic


Is he talking about criminal proceedings?


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BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
17754 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th
I don't know, man. I think she opened the door.


Elcid96
LSU Fan
Member since May 2010
5443 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th
Rex you are so funny when you try to comment on law!!


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Decatur
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2007
17777 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th
quote:

I think she opened the door.


It's not my area but everything I'm reading says she can selectively invoke


Elcid96
LSU Fan
Member since May 2010
5443 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th
Read more. You can't take the stand an read and declare your side of an argument and then leave the stand and not be crossed.

Ever wonder why people in front of congress take the 5 th and then congressmen try to just ask them their name and thy still envoke the 5th? It's because you can't have it both ways and congress knows that so they try to make the witness look silly by taking the 5 th on simple bs questions.


BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
17754 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th
Smart people on both sides making good arguments. Who will overrule if they say it was waived?


Decatur
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2007
17777 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th
quote:

You can't take the stand an read and declare your side of an argument and then leave the stand and not be crossed.


I thought all she did was authenticate a document

It was a ruse by Issa IMO


BBONDS25
LSU Fan
Member since Mar 2008
17754 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th
She clearly made a statement of innocence. That wasn't necessary to authenticate a doc


Elcid96
LSU Fan
Member since May 2010
5443 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th
No she came out and proclaimed her innocence big difference.

Now other hearings when they ask their name date of birth etc is total grandstanding and is a ruse to get them to talk and if you go back none of them answer they all invoke the 5th. Because they have been told by their attorneys the law, but it makes for good theater.


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Decatur
New Orleans Saints Fan
Member since Mar 2007
17777 posts

re: House panel to vote on Lerner's 5th
ok I see her opening statement now

Another thing on the reading list now


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