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Had the South won would New Orleans be the largest/most populated city in the US?

Posted on 10/20/17 at 7:23 pm
Posted by Tunasntigers92
The Boot
Member since Sep 2014
23658 posts
Posted on 10/20/17 at 7:23 pm
I imagine it would be a city south of the mason=dixon line.
Posted by HempHead
Big Sky Country
Member since Mar 2011
55438 posts
Posted on 10/20/17 at 7:26 pm to
Doubtful. It would have (well, did) take a while for the South to move beyond an agrarian economy, whereas even during wartime there were already industrial centers in the North. I suppose there's a possibility for a rapid shift for the Southern economy should they have successfully seceded, but I don't see why that would be the case.
Posted by Rekrul
Member since Feb 2007
7941 posts
Posted on 10/20/17 at 7:26 pm to
Maybe for a period but not now, the city is literally a shithole
Posted by NC_Tigah
Carolinas
Member since Sep 2003
123776 posts
Posted on 10/20/17 at 7:27 pm to
quote:

Had the South won would New Orleans be the largest/most populated city in the US?
I imagine it would be a city south of the mason=dixon line.


Houston
Posted by Parmen
Member since Apr 2016
18317 posts
Posted on 10/20/17 at 7:28 pm to
lol no.

New York City would remain the largest city in the US.
Posted by Bestbank Tiger
Premium Member
Member since Jan 2005
70847 posts
Posted on 10/20/17 at 7:28 pm to
Um, New Orleans wouldn't be in the US.

Posted by SirWinston
PNW
Member since Jul 2014
81280 posts
Posted on 10/20/17 at 7:29 pm to
I feel like NO would be like the Boston of the Confederacy. Minus all the sports titles.
This post was edited on 10/20/17 at 7:30 pm
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35236 posts
Posted on 10/20/17 at 7:32 pm to
quote:

Had the South won would New Orleans be the largest/most populated city in the US?
As others pointed out, they wouldn't be apart of the US.
quote:

I imagine it would be a city south of the mason=dixon line.
This Mason-Dixon line?

Posted by Tunasntigers92
The Boot
Member since Sep 2014
23658 posts
Posted on 10/20/17 at 7:35 pm to
Continental US, and I am fairly certain Nola would be on of the biggest if not the biggest due to the river.
Posted by tigerjoey
Montana
Member since Oct 2010
271 posts
Posted on 10/20/17 at 7:40 pm to
Probably, but only until it flooded and was forced to relocate.
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35236 posts
Posted on 10/20/17 at 7:44 pm to
quote:

Continental US, and I am fairly certain Nola would be on of the biggest if not the biggest due to the river.
Why? What would have made it so much more of a population center under this alternative history? At peak population (1960), it ranked 15th, although maybe it ranked higher at one time. It seems that there are some geographic factors that make expansion a little less feasible than other places.
Posted by Tunasntigers92
The Boot
Member since Sep 2014
23658 posts
Posted on 10/20/17 at 7:47 pm to
quote:

At peak population (1960), it ranked 15th,


Sou you think it would have ranked the same had the outcome of the civil war been different?
Posted by Jones
Member since Oct 2005
90442 posts
Posted on 10/20/17 at 7:52 pm to
Geography would be the only thing limiting it
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35236 posts
Posted on 10/20/17 at 7:55 pm to
quote:

Sou you think it would have ranked the same had the outcome of the civil war been different?
No. I'm saying that it was never close in this historical timeline, with a peak of 627,000 residents. As a comparison, there are currently 28 cities with a larger population than NO's peak, and 9 cities at least double that. Chicago (3rd largest) is 4.3 times larger, LA is 6 times larger, and New York is 13.6 timed larger.

So what factors would have made it so much larger that it would compete with cities that large?
Posted by auggie
Opelika, Alabama
Member since Aug 2013
27797 posts
Posted on 10/20/17 at 8:31 pm to
A southern City On The East Coast/Charleston?,probably would become the major hub/port of The States,due to the direct trade with Europe.
Posted by IonaTiger
The Commonwealth Of Virginia
Member since Mar 2006
33053 posts
Posted on 10/20/17 at 8:37 pm to
Huh? If the south had won, NO would not have been a part of the US it would have been a part of CSA (unless it chose to secede). In which case, the answer would still be, "no".
Posted by PsychTiger
Member since Jul 2004
98715 posts
Posted on 10/20/17 at 8:43 pm to
If the South had won would NO have pumps that work?
Posted by Kafka
I am the moral conscience of TD
Member since Jul 2007
141610 posts
Posted on 10/20/17 at 8:45 pm to
Oil would have been discovered whoever won the war

So, Houston

Now would Atlanta -- aka "New York's Southern branch office" -- have become such a major city w/o Yankee money?
Posted by Doc Fenton
New York, NY
Member since Feb 2007
52698 posts
Posted on 10/20/17 at 8:56 pm to
A poorly phrased question for sure, but there is an interesting underlying hypothetical that I've long thought about regarding how the CSA would have developed economically given a negotiated peace with the North.

Judah P. Benjamin was the CSA Secretary of State, and New Orleans was over 4 times larger than Charleston or Richmond, so it stands to reason that new financial institutions would have centered in New Orleans had it been a part of an independent CSA.

Then again, New Orleans had been losing clout since the 1840s. Whereas it was only 120 more citizens away from being the 2nd largest city in the U.S. in 1840 (and probably the wealthiest per capita), by the 1860 census it had dropped to 6th place (or 5th place if you count New York and Brooklyn as one city). Boston, Philadelphia, Cincinnati, and St. Louis were really taking off, whereas New Orleans was not.

There is the famous statement that 40 cents of every dollar of cotton exports from the antebellum South ended up in the pockets of New York City merchants and financiers, so there would be a very strong incentive for the South to cut out the middleman. At the same time, the Gulf Stream made it natural for boats to flow up the East Coast on the way to Europe, and the Confederacy had a very laissez faire mindset when it came to anything resembling economic protectionism. So it's likely that New York would have continued to dominate the merchant banking aspect of the Cotton trade, even after a hypothetical Southern "win" in the Civil War.

But it's also not a black-or-white thing. The Northern cities would have continued to grow faster, but New Orleans would have developed a more mature financial industry, and moreover, the CSA would have surely pursued a gigantic expansion of trade with Latin America in the coming decades of the 19th century. That's the biggest X-factor in all of this. Depending on what occurred with Mexico, Cuba, Brazil, and Argentina, the city of New Orleans could have become very important economically in the late 19th century--maybe above the level of any other continental city besides New York.

Geographically speaking though, it would always be limited in terms of physical space for expansion, to where it could never become like a Birmingham or Nashville or Houston or Atlanta--i.e., the newer types of cities in the post-war South.
Posted by HempHead
Big Sky Country
Member since Mar 2011
55438 posts
Posted on 10/20/17 at 9:03 pm to
quote:

Doc Fenton



Damn good stuff.
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