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re: Failure of minority cultures have made urban dwelling unfair to whites.

Posted on 12/8/16 at 10:13 pm to
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35236 posts
Posted on 12/8/16 at 10:13 pm to
quote:

Some answer that question by asserting what humans have always asserted, certain groups are inherently inferior. I find that simplistic and unsubstantiated scientifically.
The problem is that we base the groups on very salient traits. There are likely commonalities (cognitive ability, emotional resiliency, etc.) that could define the groups that have poorer outcomes, but those are not easily observable. And while the salient characteristics may correlate with the true causes, the generalization relies on a correlate of a correlate, which increases the error of the relationship. And then the ecological fallacy is applied and it becomes really problematic.
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35236 posts
Posted on 12/8/16 at 10:17 pm to
quote:

no wonder black women are so mean and evil today
Well I know many nice and "not evil" black women. I'm not sure why you make such absolute generalizations regarding race.
Posted by NIH
Member since Aug 2008
112513 posts
Posted on 12/8/16 at 10:22 pm to
quote:

The issue is there is a much higher percentage of blacks who are poor than whites, and thus blacks commit crime at a higher rate.


What about Hispanics? Why are poor Hispanic cities remarkably safer than black majority cities? Also-people tend to associate Oakland and L.A with black violence.
Posted by NIH
Member since Aug 2008
112513 posts
Posted on 12/8/16 at 10:25 pm to
quote:

certain groups are inherently inferior


Are you saying all races are the same?
Posted by Roger Klarvin
DFW
Member since Nov 2012
46505 posts
Posted on 12/8/16 at 10:39 pm to
quote:


Are you saying all races are the same?


Well, technically "race" is a meaningless arbitrary term without scientific criteria. "Black" and "African-American" really don't mean anything. Discussions of ethnicity are far more productive and meaningful.

But no, of course all groups of people are not the same.
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35236 posts
Posted on 12/8/16 at 10:39 pm to
quote:

Are you saying all races are the same?
Differences =/= inferiority
Posted by Tigerdev
Member since Feb 2013
12287 posts
Posted on 12/8/16 at 10:41 pm to
You are speaking to an open racist. Just for context in case it informs how much time you waste on him
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35236 posts
Posted on 12/8/16 at 10:41 pm to
quote:

Why are poor Hispanic cities remarkably safer than black majority cities?
I just want to clear something up.

I don't disagree that race is a factor.

BUT are you also arguing that SES is not a factor? I just want to get an understanding on where you stand, because it's possible to acknowledge both.
Posted by Roger Klarvin
DFW
Member since Nov 2012
46505 posts
Posted on 12/8/16 at 10:48 pm to
quote:

Why are poor Hispanic cities remarkably safer than black majority cities?


They aren't

quote:

Also-people tend to associate Oakland and L.A with black violence.


More Hispanics commit crimes in Los Angeles county every year than in the 48 states not named California or Texas combined.
Posted by HempHead
Big Sky Country
Member since Mar 2011
55428 posts
Posted on 12/8/16 at 10:49 pm to
quote:

More Hispanics commit crimes in Los Angeles county every year than in the 48 states not named California or Texas combined.



Holy shite.
Posted by JJBTiger2012
Louisiana
Member since Jun 2013
1891 posts
Posted on 12/8/16 at 10:50 pm to
Black folks will destroy an entire city. We often discuss this. Even when they are given brand new parks, houses, or anything that most ppl would enjoy it eventually becomes shite. It's only racist if you can give me one black area that's truly a great place to live?
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
66964 posts
Posted on 12/8/16 at 10:51 pm to
There are only two factors that matter:
% of population dependant on entitlements
% of out of wedlock births

Income level, educational attainment, criminality, ect all stem from these two stats.

Everything else comes from these factors no matter what color you are. What I would like to know is why blacks had nearly identical percentages to whites in these two statistics back in the 60's, but now are completely different. Now, don't get me wrong, whites have seen increasing percentages dependant on entitlements and an increasing percentage of out of wedlock births, but the differences between the two demographics in these respects has become astronomical.

What happened? Was it an economic movement, a cultural movement, or a political one, and why didn't the same movement take place in other demographics?

This is what I want to know. You can't fix urban populations until you shrink these two factors. Why? Because human nature dictates that the greater these two factors are, the more self destructive and inneficient a society becomes.
Posted by Roger Klarvin
DFW
Member since Nov 2012
46505 posts
Posted on 12/8/16 at 10:51 pm to
When you consider 10% of all US Hispanics 20% of those on federal assistance live in LA county, it really isn't surprising.
Posted by HempHead
Big Sky Country
Member since Mar 2011
55428 posts
Posted on 12/8/16 at 10:53 pm to
quote:

When you consider 10% of all US Hispanics 20% of those on federal assistance live in LA county, it really isn't surprising.



No, but those numbers are surprising. Jesus. That is absurd.

I'm guessing CA has like 30-40% of all Hispanics on government aid, then?
Posted by TJGator1215
FL/TN
Member since Sep 2011
14174 posts
Posted on 12/8/16 at 10:55 pm to
. .
Posted by Roger Klarvin
DFW
Member since Nov 2012
46505 posts
Posted on 12/8/16 at 10:57 pm to
quote:

It's only racist if you can give me one black area that's truly a great place to live?


Stockbridge, Georgia
Posted by Roger Klarvin
DFW
Member since Nov 2012
46505 posts
Posted on 12/8/16 at 11:01 pm to
quote:

What I would like to know is why blacks had nearly identical percentages to whites in these two statistics back in the 60's, but now are completely different.


Lyndon Johnson with an assist from Ronald Reagan

No President has ever more effectively executed their gameplan than LBJ. He promised to lock down the black vote for generations to come and his foresight in the endeavor was truly amazing. Horribly detrimental to black America, but amazing nonetheless.

Combined with Reagan's war on drug and stiffer penalties for minority offenders, and we have what we see today.
This post was edited on 12/8/16 at 11:03 pm
Posted by buckeye_vol
Member since Jul 2014
35236 posts
Posted on 12/8/16 at 11:07 pm to
quote:

There are only two factors that matter:% of population dependant on entitlements
% of out of wedlock births
You've stated this before, but I think treating these as the causal variables misses the point too. I think there are underlying variables that cause these and the other variables you list.

Not only that, but these are population level metrics, which are don't always apply to an individual. They're more proxy metrics for convenience purposes, at least in the manner you're using them.
This post was edited on 12/8/16 at 11:09 pm
Posted by cave canem
pullarius dominus
Member since Oct 2012
12186 posts
Posted on 12/8/16 at 11:39 pm to
quote:

No President has ever more effectively executed their gameplan than LBJ. He promised to lock down the black vote for generations to come and his foresight in the endeavor was truly amazing. Horribly detrimental to black America, but amazing nonetheless.


this is spot on, he said he was going to lock down the vote by just giving "them" a little something, purposefully not enough for change just something and did just that, it is a political move that should be studied for generations due to its effectiveness.

quote:

Combined with Reagan's war on drug and stiffer penalties for minority offenders, and we have what we see today.


Whats the matter, just could not resist the it's whitey's fault one more time? Reagan forced them into selling drugs and committing crimes?

The above statement is about as productive as stating blacks are more prone to violence genetically than whites, while there may be some facts to back it up traveling down either rabbit hole is a waste of time.
Posted by kingbob
Sorrento, LA
Member since Nov 2010
66964 posts
Posted on 12/9/16 at 12:30 am to
quote:

Not only that, but these are population level metrics, which are don't always apply to an individual. They're more proxy metrics for convenience purposes, at least in the manner you're using them.


Being raised in a broken home is the single most important factor defining educational success, lifetime income, household income, and criminality.
education
crime
future

What causes broken homes are entitlement and the war on drugs. I think ending both of these practices at the federal level would rapidly fix much of what ails us as a nation.

There are 5 large overarching issues in our country:
Entitlements
Regulatory State
Taxation
Military Industrial Complex
The War on Drugs

Entitlements destroy the culture of the country just in the way they are structured. They do not alleviate poverty but prolong it. Not a safety net, but a baited hook. It poisons our family structure, our healthcare system, our educational system, and our justice system. However, entitlements aren't just for poor minorities, they are also what our elderly rely on. Our corporations are also hooked on welfare. Our entire agricultural system, housing industry, and even Wall Street is heavily subsidized as is nearly everything else. We need to eliminate entitlements at the federal level and allow the market to find its true level. Entitlements also cause citizens to not respond to changing job markets. Rather than move to where jobs are, they stay in de-industrialized areas and don't get new jobs once jobs leave an area. They also can afford to not work tough agricultural and construction jobs, causing labor shortages which must be filled with migrant labor. Entitlements also attract many immigrants and refugees seeking to take advantage of those entitlements. Section 8 also greatly distorts the real estate market in cities causing prices to spiral upwards out of control. Entitlements also include federally backed student loans which cause the costs of education to spiral upwards out of control, and health care (see a trend?)

The regulatory state stifles job growth and innovation while carving out protections for connected industries and large firms. Our regulatory costs exceed $2 trillion! This pushes jobs overseas and creates monopolies and cartels in industries like agriculture, automobiles, energy, healthcare, insurance, ect.

Our taxation system punishes investment and earning and rewards spending, passive wealth, and not working. We need to switch to the FAIR Tax. This would greatly increase efficiency by eliminating the millions of wasted manhours spend every year by every taxpayer and business just trying to pay their taxes, and the millions of manhours expended by hundreds of thousands of government employees processing those returns and adjudicating fraud. It's completely unnecessary and a massive waste of time and money. Our tax code is also filled with loopholes which allow government to pick winners and losers with special exemptions and carve-outs.

The military industrial complex keeps our military budget bloated with waste and us involved in every conflict around the globe. We keep allowing ourselves to be drawn in, so we need more money to support all of the conflicts those conflicts draw us into. It's a snake eating its tale and it needs to stop. Just by changing our acquisition process wasted $125 billion in 5 years! Mission creep has robbed us of our capabilities and our money. We need to seriously reevaluate what we want our military to be doing.

The War on Drugs ties all of these issues together. Those on entitlements cannot work legitimate jobs to supplement their income because they will lose their benefits, so they turn to the black market to supplement their incomes. The War on Drugs creates just such a black market. Black markets are inevitably governed by violence because they can't exactly go to court over their disputes. To combat drugs, police have been empowered with civil asset forfeiture, which incentivizes enforcement because police departments get a huge cut from the proceeds. It has converted our policemen from protectors and enforcers of the law to nothing more than common tax collectors and highway robbers. At the same time, the War on Drugs absolutely breaks homes by locking up a massive percentage of the young male population, starving the nation of fathers. Because of our market being so lucrative, criminal cartels from Asia and South America smuggle in drugs in enormous quantities. They then also use this smuggling infrastructure to send in illegal immigrants and illegal weapons. The DEA's practices also inflate the costs of legitimate medicines and restrict their access, resulting on people getting addicted to dangerous, legal narcotics, and then turning to the black market once their prescriptions run out. We treat addiction as a crime rather than a disease. The massive losses of freedom, money, and life due to violence is why we cannot afford to continue the War on Drugs.

If we fix those 5 issues, we fix the country, for the most part because we will spend less money, we will be more efficient with the money we spend, our economy will be stronger and more reflective of reality, more people will be working to create more goods and services, government services will be better allocated, we will be less involved in foreign entanglements, and we will have more money to spend on infrastructure.
This post was edited on 12/9/16 at 12:35 am
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