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Message
re: corporate welfare vs socialism
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:25 pm to MrCarton
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:25 pm to MrCarton
quote:
State an actual example please. I don't want to go down some hypothetical where you frame the entire issue within the context of 2 possible outcomes.
Been working in chemical plants for years---If it were not for EPA and DEQ the Mississippi river would be a wasteland by now.
2
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:26 pm to WildTchoupitoulas
quote:
One plant is operating on a river, using the water from it in their process.
One day a plant opens up shop next door and begins discharging substances that inhibit the process of the downstream plant.
...or, in fact, diverts ALL of the water upstream of the original plant to use in their process, and don't discharge any back to the river, leaving none for use by downstream plants.
1. Please include the specific regulation. I will not just assume that the regulation actually fulfills its purpose in either A. protecting the river or environment or B. protects other businesses from externalities. You are arguing those points, so prove it.
2. Who owns the river and why does there need to be a regulation preventing one from dumping pollution into other people's property when violating others' property is already illegal?
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:27 pm to The_Duke
quote:
Been working in chemical plants for years---If it were not for EPA and DEQ the Mississippi river would be a wasteland by now.
Who owns the river?
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:28 pm to The_Duke
quote:
With a corporate tax rate will 0, wealthier individuals and business owners would only use that to reclassify personal earnings as corporate income.
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:28 pm to CelticDog
Some call it crony capitalism.
Indiana official: Carrier deal is about federal contracts
Indiana official: Carrier deal is about federal contracts
quote:
But John Mutz, a former Indiana lieutenant governor who sits on the agency’s 12-member board, told POLITICO that Carrier turned down a previous offer from IEDC before the election. He said he thinks the choice is driven by concerns from Carrier’s parent company, United Technologies, that it could lose a portion of its roughly $6.7 billion in federal contracts.
“This deal is no different than other deals that we put together at the IEDC to retain jobs, but the fact is that the difference is that United Technologies depends on the federal government for lots of business,” Mutz said.
quote:
Claude Barfield, an expert on international trade at the American Enterprise Institute, said brokering aid packages with individual companies is far from a conservative approach.
“For market-based economists or analysts, this is really a version of crony capitalism, and it’s the kind of thing you really don’t want to get into or have government get into,” Barfield said. “This gets back to who … actually has the ear of the government. So you get the situation where decisions are not made in terms of their economic sense, but in terms of gaming the political system.
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:31 pm to MrCarton
quote:Don't we all?
Who owns the river?
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:31 pm to The_Duke
quote:
It's a trickle down thing. Cut taxes for corporations = working man gets mad and wants taxes cut = less money to run public services and improve infrastructure.
That's cause leftist economic morons have convinced working man that he isn't PAYING the corporate taxes.(he is)
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:31 pm to CelticDog
Do you know that most tax increases on businesses is really an increase on the product and/or service they provide?
It essentially is a hidden tax burden put upon the American people who consume their goods or services.
When you useful idiots start realizing you and I are paying for those taxes then maybe we can take another step forward in bringing jobs back to the U.S. Is it all taxes? No of course not.
Are companies moving because union wages are making it difficult to compete? Yes among regulations, fee's, etc.
It essentially is a hidden tax burden put upon the American people who consume their goods or services.
When you useful idiots start realizing you and I are paying for those taxes then maybe we can take another step forward in bringing jobs back to the U.S. Is it all taxes? No of course not.
Are companies moving because union wages are making it difficult to compete? Yes among regulations, fee's, etc.
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:31 pm to CelticDog
quote:
Carrier gets tax breaks.
keeps half the jobs in Indiana. sends half the jobs to Mexico.
Indiana loses tax income.
is this a corporate welfare plan?
Keneysian economics at its finest...couple acts like this with a Trillion $ infrastructure spending bill and a dramatic increase in defense spending and the GOP is going to be responsible for proving once and for all that Keynes and the likes of Paul Krugman have been right all along...couple this with tax cuts, tariffs on imports and an end to illegal workers working in the United States and folks hanging dry-wall in this country are going to see their wages jump from $30K a year to $130K! It took the GOP to prove what progressives have been saying for years...damn deficits just open up the spigots and protect American workers....
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:32 pm to The_Duke
quote:
Been working in chemical plants for years---If it were not for EPA and DEQ the Mississippi river would be a wasteland by now.
It's still pretty bad, but that's due to unregulated nutrients from agriculture which enters the Gulf and depletes oxygen in large patches offshore - thereby inhibiting charter companies that depend on a vibrant fishery for their business.
Here's the thing, if Ag doesn't get it's shite together, it will eventually get regulated - and no one really wants that. But farmers would rather waste money by over-applying fertilizer based on what the sales reps are telling them to do.
Also, people don't understand that the Cuyahoga didn't just catch fire one time, it's just in 1969 someone got a really good picture of it. That river burned frequently, causing millions of dollars to small operators on the river. The large corps responsible, just laughed it off.
Regulations protect resources for the use of everybody, public, private, corporate - not just endangered twisted-eared, spotted grub gobblers.
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:35 pm to FreddieMac
quote:Not only is it good thing but it gives other companies fodder to threaten to move also....thus they will have more money and can increase wages....this is a Union man's fricking dream come true...American workers have finally got a voice...so what if the deficit doubles? We have been saying for years that deficits don't matter...cut taxes and spend like fricking crazy!!!! I ain't been this optimistic in years...nothing like dropping fiscal responsibility for a mad money grab to make one giddy!
No because the gov't is always setting the conditions for business. This happens all the time from state to state. You act as if its no big deal to save 1100 people's jobs but I bet you would not bitch about giving 1100 people food stamps.
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:35 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
That's cause leftist economic morons have convinced working man that he isn't PAYING the corporate taxes.(he is)
Not sure how you blame the left with this one. I think fault belongs to both parties but even more so to the party that ALWAYSs looks to cut corporate taxes--which would be the repubs.
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:36 pm to germandawg
You don't understand Keynesian economics. Deficit spending isn't appropriate in times of economic growth.
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:36 pm to The_Duke
quote:
Not sure how you blame the left with this one. I think fault belongs to both parties but even more so to the party that ALWAYSs looks to cut corporate taxes--which would be the repubs.
How exactly would that be related to the working man having the false impression that he isn't the one PAYING the corporate taxes(cause he is)
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:40 pm to MrCarton
quote:
Please include the specific regulation
Pollutant discharge limits are regulated. If one plant is discharging an herbicide into a stream, and a farmer pulls water from the stream to irrigate his crops, he will suffer losses.
Many streams, lake and reservoirs are public drinking water supplies. Regulations attempt to keep water safe to drink.
quote:
Who owns the river
It's in the public commons. Regulations keep them available to EVERYONE, including businesses.
quote:
violating others' property is already illegal?
Oh, I see, you think regulations aren't laws.
Guess what, they are.
I'm not saying we have to regulate the shite out of everything, and if we could count on people to be good actors, we wouldn't need so much regulation. But there are too many assholes who ruin it for the good folk. Therefore some regulation is a good thing.
No, but, "Who owns the river?"
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:40 pm to VOLhalla
quote:
800 jobs are staying. 1300 jobs are going to Mexico.
LINK
It doesn't matter if it is 1 job staying if it is your job!!!! Listen...the left has preached for years that deficits don't matter and spending is the only way to spur the economy...but the GOP has proven that spending coupled with tax cuts will spur the economy that much faster....Ronald Reagan knew it...but now we have a tax cutting spending president who also protects the interests of American workers....it don't get no better than that for the working class!!! frick abortion, the environment, gay rights and civil rights for that....give me a fricking way to earn a heaping pile of cash by honest labor and all that other shite will take care of itself...
It is a brave new world where we are cutting taxes, increasing spending and protecting American workers...the only folks that ought to pissed about any of that are the Conservatives...liberals and Trumpkins should be (and will be) dancing in the streets....
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:41 pm to ShortyRob
Because the repubs give this fake narrative every election that a tax cut to big business will help the working man. While never addressing the down side of that---that the working man is the one who is paying for this tax break that only makes the rich richer.
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:44 pm to Mars duMorgue
quote:
For a fact? I just watched a FOX News segment 10 minutes ago showing Huntington, IN-based Carrier workers protesting the move of their (700) jobs to Mexico.
I certainly hope you're right and FOX is wrong. Hate to see good, hard working people lose their jobs.
Picking and choosing winners and losers will become a problem for our brave new world...so all workers are going to have to be protected!!!!! Trump may not save those 700 jobs this time around but he is going to have to save more than he doesn't...more by a damned sight...or the workers of the United States will find someone who will....and make no mistake, someone will come along and promise them they will....
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:46 pm to VOLhalla
quote:
You don't understand Keynesian economics. Deficit spending isn't appropriate in times of economic growth.
I understand that....but it ain't going to hurt anything in the short term and to hell with the long term!!! It is all about me an mine friend, all due respect....I spent nearly half a century thinking about whats best for me and the country...I am so done with that bullshite...it is all about me an mine from now on!!!
Posted on 12/1/16 at 4:46 pm to The_Duke
quote:LOL. talk about a point flying completely over your head. Damn.
Because the repubs give this fake narrative every election that a tax cut to big business will help the working man. While never addressing the down side of that---that the working man is the one who is paying for this tax break that only makes the rich richer.
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