- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Check in if you're not melting over 4000 new troops in Afghanistan.
Posted on 8/22/17 at 2:21 am to Lsuchs
Posted on 8/22/17 at 2:21 am to Lsuchs
quote:
It's more leading from the rear and supporting them
Eh, that's actually kind of a bigger waste. Think about what you're advocating: taking an elite force of damn near Olympic athletes and put them in a battalion TOC to help Hadji figure out how to run LOGPAC?
1
Posted on 8/22/17 at 2:26 am to jonboy
Lol think what you want man. Just telling you how it goes sometimes, SOCOM doesn't think it's a waste
Posted on 8/22/17 at 2:29 am to northshorebamaman
quote:
Why use SEALs when we have people custom built for that mission?
Trying to understand your question. Do you mean like use rangers or infantry to take a position or do you mean custom built as in SF being more focused and trained in the FID role?
In a large scale war like early Afghanistan or all of Iraq you definitely need your guys kicking down doors and taking fire storming positions. In smaller scale counter insurgency operations when casualties are inevitable we choose to keep Americans out of harms way as much as possible.
Look up some delta and devgru (seal team 6) stories while searching for bin laden in tora bora in the early 2000s.
This post was edited on 8/22/17 at 2:39 am
Posted on 8/22/17 at 2:40 am to LSUTigersVCURams
What I'm unhappy is that they're there indefinitely, which could mean forever
Posted on 8/22/17 at 2:40 am to Lsuchs
quote:
custom built as in SF being more focused and trained in the FID role?
This. I've been googling around to try to get a better idea of how the SEALs are currently being used in UW roles and most of the stuff I can find claim that they do receive training for and run those missions but SF is far more focused and trained for that capability. Again, this is just from google. I am no expert on SEALs. MrCarton would be very useful in this thread.
My last post on the SEAL sidebar because I don't want to stray too far off-topic.
Posted on 8/22/17 at 2:46 am to northshorebamaman
You are right it is primarily SF, which I've mentioned earlier. But both can and have. My post a while back that started this said "SEALS or SF" I believe.
The poster that said seals have no business doing this is incorrect because
The poster that said seals have no business doing this is incorrect because
quote:
they do receive training for and run those missions
This post was edited on 8/22/17 at 3:04 am
Posted on 8/22/17 at 3:08 am to Lsuchs
SEALs make shitty infantryman. They have zero institutional knowledge on the subject. They generally get their asses kicked when they have to fight like infantryman. I'd take a couple of salty regular infantry NCO's to do the FID mission over SEALs.
Posted on 8/22/17 at 3:12 am to Lsuchs
Extra troops are good but what really will help is a change to the rules of engagement. If Resolute Support gets the same ROE as Inherent Resolve the extra troops advising and assisting at the brigade and kandak levels can target and run strike cells. Much more lethal effects on the enemy than traditional advise and assist in Afghanistan has been since 2015 or so.
Posted on 8/22/17 at 3:15 am to GeauxxxTigers23
I've never heard it called FID but you're right. A regular light infantry battalion can advise and assist and with less restrictive ROE bring a lot of lethal effects down if the right assets are available. Armed ISR, CAS, artillery, etc.
This post was edited on 8/22/17 at 3:16 am
Posted on 8/22/17 at 3:20 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
I'd take a couple of salty regular infantry NCO's to do the FID mission over SEALs.
That's fine, and good for you. Idk infantrys role in FID but good on them if they have one.
I just mentioned seals can do it. They can and they have. Saying they have no business doing this is not correct, as it's their specific business on many deployments.
Posted on 8/22/17 at 3:21 am to Lsuchs
quote:Maybe I should say they SHOULD have no business doing it.
I just mentioned seals can do it. They can and they have. Saying they have no business doing this is not correct, as it's their specific business on many deployments.
They can teach guys how to shoot and work out real good but there's a lot more to running an infantry platoon/company/battalion than just being a ninja. And those skills just aren't in the SEAL playbook.
This post was edited on 8/22/17 at 3:23 am
Posted on 8/22/17 at 3:22 am to PetroBabich
quote:
A regular light infantry battalion can advise and assist and with less restrictive ROE bring a lot of lethal effects down if the right assets are available
Why would infantry have less restrictive ROEs?
Posted on 8/22/17 at 3:23 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
Maybe I should say they SHOULD have no business doing it.
Fair enough, to each his own.
quote:
They can teach guys how to shoot and work out real good but there's a lot more to running an infantry platoon/company/battalion than just being a ninja. And those skills just aren't in the SEAL playbook.
They are when they specifically do workups to run these missions
This post was edited on 8/22/17 at 3:30 am
Posted on 8/22/17 at 3:30 am to Lsuchs
quote:
Why would infantry have less restrictive ROEs?
I'm saying the operation itself, Operation Resolute Support, needs less restrictive ROE. That way whatever troops they do send will be more effective.
Posted on 8/22/17 at 3:31 am to Lsuchs
Also between all our current counter terror commitments we don't have many extra operators sitting around waiting to be deployed. They are about tasked out as is so conventional forces have to share the load.
Posted on 8/22/17 at 3:31 am to Lsuchs
quote:I understand that they receive training on it. What I'm saying is they aren't career infantrymen. They didn't grow up being infantrymen learning how to be infantrymen from hundreds and thousands of other guys who grew up being infantrymen and so on and so on. That's called institutional knowledge and it can't be imparted onto a SEAL team in a few months of predeployment workups. SF guys come mostly from infantry battalions. Infantry battalions have a lot of really good NCOs too. Why wouldn't you want career infantrymen leading and training people how to be infantrymen?
They are when they are trained to run these mission
Let commandos be commandos and let infantrymen be infantrymen.
Posted on 8/22/17 at 3:38 am to GeauxxxTigers23
quote:
SF guys come mostly from infantry battalions. Infantry battalions have a lot of really good NCOs too. Why wouldn't you want career infantrymen leading and training people how to be infantrymen?
Let commandos be commandos and let infantrymen be infantrymen.
SF are commandos, and they are the primary FID operators.
You act like I'm making these decisions and you are trying to convince me seals are a bad one. I just stated they both do this.
I've never once said SF can't or is not the lead in this role. I've actually been saying they are the primary since page 2. Seems like some anti-seal army infantry chest pumping responses to the fact that seals are charged with this mission as well
This post was edited on 8/22/17 at 3:41 am
Posted on 8/22/17 at 3:41 am to Lsuchs
I'm well past chest bumping in my old age. I'm simply stating that SEALs aren't the best people for this job and they shouldn't be doing it and I explained why. SEALs are really good at some things. Leading an infantry fight is not one of them.
Posted on 8/22/17 at 3:42 am to RockyMtnTigerWDE
Why can't some of you get this?
We shouldn't be in Afghanistan at all.
We had 100,000 troops there with a big foot print, air power, the whole shebang. We lost a lot of guys and accomplished nothing. We had a number of guys killed by 'friendly' Afghans.
Now we'll have more dead and accomplish nothing.
We shouldn't be in Afghanistan at all.
We had 100,000 troops there with a big foot print, air power, the whole shebang. We lost a lot of guys and accomplished nothing. We had a number of guys killed by 'friendly' Afghans.
Now we'll have more dead and accomplish nothing.
This post was edited on 8/22/17 at 3:43 am
Posted on 8/22/17 at 3:45 am to GeauxxxTigers23
And I'll agree SF is better suited for this role, and SOCOM knows this as well. Still both will end up with a part in the role, as well as both taking part in DA Ops.
I stop short of saying "not good" though. Put any SOF group through an 18 month workup with any goal in mind and these guys will do just fine
I stop short of saying "not good" though. Put any SOF group through an 18 month workup with any goal in mind and these guys will do just fine
Page 3 of 4
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News