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Message
re: Charles Koch is a Racist who Supports the Police State...Or Not
Posted on 12/29/14 at 1:57 pm to Big Scrub TX
Posted on 12/29/14 at 1:57 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:I think you should more thoroughly suggest what folks this board say rather than assume things based on the fact the people are conservative. The disparate impact if the WoD is most certainly not an uncommon discussion this board.
I think it's very novel for you to assert that the board believes the WoD somehow UNJUSTLY impacts black people.
This post was edited on 12/29/14 at 1:59 pm
0
Posted on 12/29/14 at 1:57 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
If you have been here for a few years and participated in a wide variety of threads you would find this issue has been discussed, and argued...many times over. It mainly deals with the WoD's and it's affect on black communities.
I've watched many of the Ferguson (and related threads) with interest. Are you saying they are poor cross-sections of board opinion? Because my takeaway form those threads in no way mimics what Koch says in the article. Sure, there are a lot of few folks who in theory care about curtailing police power and ending the war on drugs...but they often go to great pains to deny ANY racial component. Many of them also seem to quickly default to pro-police stances when push comes to shove.
Again, the typical response isn't "yeah, black communities have been decimated by an asymmetrically-fought war on drugs". Much more typical would be "cops go where the crime is", effectively making the OPPOSITE assertion to what you are saying.
I hope what you are saying is true, but I don't see it.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 1:58 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:It's obvious that you don't know this board very well. My question to you is do you feel that you have been mislead about the Koch brothers by people like Harry Reed?
This article is full of beliefs that I think it's very questionable to say that "most of the board" agrees with.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 1:58 pm to CherryGarciaMan
We need to monitor the huffpo version's comments for the lulz
quote:
Denver Soday ·
Do your part to reform the system, Charles. Turn your self in, plead guilty, and report to prison.
quote:
Suzanne Core
So the Kochs are now going directly from BUYING elections and BUYING Congress to just MAKING laws now?
Just what we need in this country: more of the .01% unhinged selfish self-centered greedy plutocrat oligarchs running things! And, no, you cannot trust these guys. They never ever do anything to help anyone but themselves. Never, ever.
quote:
Diane Alberts ·
Carol White Don't forget "vote intelligently." The Tea Party would be a fringe of a fringe if the population weren't so easily manipulated by overt and latent bigotry.
quote:
Tom Acord
THEY WANT LABOR CAMPS AND NO REGULATIONS.... WE HAVE SEEN THIS IN GERMANY IN THE 1930S
quote:
Neal J Arsenault ·
I was figuring that, undoubtedly, the Koch brothers would be looking for the best system of justice that money could buy, and, given the chance, they'd do just that...buy it....
Nothing in their scheme of things, ever, for the little guy...never....
quote:
John Harvey ·
Do you want to bet whether somehow private prisons will be part of the plan to "reform" the criminal justice system? If the Koch brothers are not invested in corporate prisons, some of their 1% friends certainly are.
quote:
Harroll Morris ·
David Lavelett They are Republican and Ultra Conservative. That pretty much eliminates the geek part.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:01 pm to La Place Mike
quote:
My question to you is do you feel that you have been mislead about the Koch brothers by people like Harry Reed?
I don't know. I never listen to Harry "Reed". And I like the Kochs overall. So perhaps what's obvious is that you don't know my views very well.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:01 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
The typical response when somebody points out the absurdly asymmetric powder/crack mandatory sentencing laws is "hey, don't do drugs in the first place and you won't have to worry about anything".
no
the "crack" sentencing is part of the WOD, which the majority of this board despises.
its also an example of emotional-reactionary thinking that my people despise
quote:
The article even goes on to talk about the literal millions of imprisoned...which is a big part of the "absent black fathers" issue which doesn't usually get mentioned (at least not with proper context).
70% of black men are not in jail
quote:
This article is full of beliefs that I think it's very questionable to say that "most of the board" agrees with.
you need to read this board more often, then
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:01 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
I think it's very novel for you to assert that the board believes the WoD somehow UNJUSTLY impacts black people. e.g. The typical response when somebody points out the absurdly asymmetric powder/crack mandatory sentencing laws is "hey, don't do drugs in the first place and you won't have to worry about anything".
I do think it is silly to assume anyone is a victim for breaking a law. How hard is it not to do drugs? I think all drugs should be legalized, but I will never do them personally. I don't understand the lure.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:02 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
my people
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:02 pm to SlowFlowPro
DP.
This post was edited on 12/29/14 at 2:03 pm
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:03 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
I've watched many of the Ferguson (and related threads) with interest. Are you saying they are poor cross-sections of board opinion? Because my takeaway form those threads in no way mimics what Koch says in the article.
what the frick does ferguson have to do with the WOD?
quote:
Sure, there are a lot of few folks who in theory care about curtailing police power and ending the war on drugs...but they often go to great pains to deny ANY racial component.
again. there is not racial intent, which is what you're pushing. the impacts of the policy affect different groups differently
the reason for THAT is largely due to the culture of collective/average behavior of the group itself
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:03 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
I've watched many of the Ferguson
A really shitty example to support your ideas on this issue. There were a couple of more lower profile cases that occurred afterwards that would be more in line with police overreach.
The problem is, and SFP mentioned this early during the Ferguson fiasco, is people focused far too much on race and too little on police overreach. The WoDs does affect the black community disproportionately, but Ferguson wasn't even close to an example of this overreach.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:05 pm to LeonPhelps
quote:
I do think it is silly to assume anyone is a victim for breaking a law.
The difference is it is aggressively prosecuted (and with much worse sentencing) re blacks than re whites.
Literally 10's of millions of white Americans are illegal drug users. It is a political decision - not a simple fact of the universe - to choose to effectively ignore the prosecution of those crimes. If you're going to have a drug war, then have one equally. Don't use it as a tool to effectively sweep an entire race into the system while ignoring the other (which uses and deals drugs AT LEAST as much percentage-wise as blacks and in WAY HIGHER absolute numbers.)
A black 17-year old caught with weed is much more likely to be swept permanently into the system than his white counterpart who will continue to smoke pot in college.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:06 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:I can only go by your posting history and there is nothing that makes me believe you would be a fan of The Koch brothers.
I don't know. I never listen to Harry "Reed". And I like the Kochs overall. So perhaps what's obvious is that you don't know my views very well.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:07 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
The problem is, and SFP mentioned this early during the Ferguson fiasco, is people focused far too much on race and too little on police overreach. The WoDs does affect the black community disproportionately, but Ferguson wasn't even close to an example of this overreach.
The Koch guy (in the article) makes sympathetic reference to how the racial prosecution of the drug war has fostered the anger you saw on display in places like Ferguson. That is a level of nuance that I challenge you to prove has been on display on this board AT ALL.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:08 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
A black 17-year old caught with weed is much more likely to be swept permanently into the system than his white counterpart who will continue to smoke pot in college.
If you substitute "poor" for black, I think it would be the exact same thing. The CJ system favors those with financial means.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:09 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Literally 10's of millions of white Americans are illegal drug users. It is a political decision - not a simple fact of the universe - to choose to effectively ignore the prosecution of those crimes. If you're going to have a drug war, then have one equally. Don't use it as a tool to effectively sweep an entire race into the system while ignoring the other (which uses and deals drugs AT LEAST as much percentage-wise as blacks and in WAY HIGHER absolute numbers.)
Do you also think the government invented aids to kill off black people? This is some crazy conspiracy bs here.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:10 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
If you substitute "poor" for black, I think it would be the exact same thing. The CJ system favors those with financial means.
Perhaps. But much more crucially, it favors white over black. Take for example "stop and frisk". That impacted black people almost exclusively.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:10 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
The difference is it is aggressively prosecuted (and with much worse sentencing) re blacks than re whites.
it's aggressively policed in areas of higher violence, which is going to be the inner city...which is where you find more minorities
quote:
(which uses and deals drugs AT LEAST as much percentage-wise as blacks and in WAY HIGHER absolute numbers.
but does not kill at anywhere close to the same rate. violent crime is the main factor in police presence
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:10 pm to LeonPhelps
quote:
Do you also think the government invented aids to kill off black people? This is some crazy conspiracy bs here.
Of course not.
Posted on 12/29/14 at 2:11 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Perhaps. But much more crucially, it favors white over black. Take for example "stop and frisk". That impacted black people almost exclusively.
I don't have the numbers on that but I'm sure when it comes to profiling, black people are targeted more often than white people on a per capita basis.
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