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re: Watch this video, and tell me NBA superstars didn't have it easier in the '90's
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:56 pm to PrimeTime Money
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:56 pm to PrimeTime Money
MJs counters were impeccable...I can't imagine how anyone could guard him today.
It's amazing but having an unstoppable mid range jumper /-game truly opens up EVERY Space on the court up for a player
It's amazing but having an unstoppable mid range jumper /-game truly opens up EVERY Space on the court up for a player
2
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:56 pm to DMagic
is this thread an attempt to say harden > mj?
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:58 pm to stout
quote:
You didn't hear how much humans have evolved in just 20 years?
I was assuming as Strength and Conditioning programs have progressed, players have grown faster and stronger. Take a glance at the Olympic World Records, 65% of them were set in the last two Olympics.
Then again Baseball players of the 90s look like cartoon characters up against the players of today.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:59 pm to PrimeTime Money
Larry Bird and Magic Johnson were both 6'9"
How are you defining "Big Man"?
I am saying that Bigs stretch the floor now and get outside and can shoot and this extends the game in ways like it was in the past. I am not saying that Bigs were great shooters in the past, although there were guys like Lambeer who could hit 3s.
No, you are right. The Bigs are much better shooters from outside now than they were in the past. I do not dispute that at all. That part of the game has definitely changed. I was saying that in their extension of the game outside, they are stretching the floor, which is good.
The way that Bigs can shoot from the outside is ONE area where I can definitely say that the game is better now. It used to be where if you were 7 feet tall, you camped out near the basket and never went outside. You also could often not run the floor very well. I do not miss those days and am much happier with the way that the Bigs play now, though are not as dominant as they used to be.
How are you defining "Big Man"?
I am saying that Bigs stretch the floor now and get outside and can shoot and this extends the game in ways like it was in the past. I am not saying that Bigs were great shooters in the past, although there were guys like Lambeer who could hit 3s.
No, you are right. The Bigs are much better shooters from outside now than they were in the past. I do not dispute that at all. That part of the game has definitely changed. I was saying that in their extension of the game outside, they are stretching the floor, which is good.
The way that Bigs can shoot from the outside is ONE area where I can definitely say that the game is better now. It used to be where if you were 7 feet tall, you camped out near the basket and never went outside. You also could often not run the floor very well. I do not miss those days and am much happier with the way that the Bigs play now, though are not as dominant as they used to be.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:59 pm to AlaTiger
All of those things except hand-checking still occur. On top of that the scores were up until the wasteland of the early 2000s.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 11:00 pm to Fearthehat0307
quote:
is this thread an attempt to say harden > mj?
Basically, anyone not playing right now sucked arse, and Chamberlain and Robertson played against 5'10" white guys. Midrange jumpers are stupid. Defense was invented 15 years ago.
Did I miss anything?
Posted on 4/16/15 at 11:00 pm to StrongSafety
quote:
MJs counters were impeccable...I can't imagine how anyone could guard him today.
It's amazing but having an unstoppable mid range jumper /-game truly opens up EVERY Space on the court up for a player
Yes. And that is a lot of what seems to be missing consistently from the Guards/Forward today. Being able to shoot well is really underrated as a basketball skill, it seems.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 11:01 pm to Fearthehat0307
I thought that was already established. At this point Jeff Teague>>MJ
Posted on 4/16/15 at 11:06 pm to AlaTiger
quote:You are exaggerating big time about all of that stuff.
Handchecking, bumping, absolute battles for position with arms flailing, hooking, grabbing, punching, and brutalizing your opponent were common. Fights happened regularly because of how physical the game was in the paint. You don't see much of that anymore.
I know from watching games that you are exaggerating, but anybody can watch the videos I just posted and see that any little hand-checking you see isn't stopping anybody from getting their shot.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 11:08 pm to AlaTiger
I just think most non superstar players will fall into one of two categories:
Players who can shoot really well
Players who are insanely athletic
A lot of the guys who can shoot really well, lack athleticism to get open and get the ball or make their own shot. You could probably group these into A) guys who can shoot while being defended and B) guys who cant i.e. not pro level players
And a lot of the guys who are insanely athletic focus on driving to the rim to score. So they may not focus on their shooting technique. I think this is a big reason why we may have the idea that the players are better than ever, because there is so many more athletic players, even if they arent technically sound. These guys probably fall into two groups. A) guys who can hit open shots to go along with their driving buckets and B) guys who cant i.e. great college studs who cant hack it in the league. Think Austin Rivers type. But in general both A and B arent sound shooters when presented with a guarded shot
Feel free to tell me im an idiot, but it seems to me there is less overlap between these two groups than there used to be. Doesnt mean the game is overall better or worse, just more role specific and less well rounded on a player to player. Not necessarily on a team level.
eta: I am eager to hear why it is actually completely opposite of what I just mentioned
Players who can shoot really well
Players who are insanely athletic
A lot of the guys who can shoot really well, lack athleticism to get open and get the ball or make their own shot. You could probably group these into A) guys who can shoot while being defended and B) guys who cant i.e. not pro level players
And a lot of the guys who are insanely athletic focus on driving to the rim to score. So they may not focus on their shooting technique. I think this is a big reason why we may have the idea that the players are better than ever, because there is so many more athletic players, even if they arent technically sound. These guys probably fall into two groups. A) guys who can hit open shots to go along with their driving buckets and B) guys who cant i.e. great college studs who cant hack it in the league. Think Austin Rivers type. But in general both A and B arent sound shooters when presented with a guarded shot
Feel free to tell me im an idiot, but it seems to me there is less overlap between these two groups than there used to be. Doesnt mean the game is overall better or worse, just more role specific and less well rounded on a player to player. Not necessarily on a team level.
eta: I am eager to hear why it is actually completely opposite of what I just mentioned
This post was edited on 4/16/15 at 11:11 pm
Posted on 4/16/15 at 11:10 pm to StrongSafety
quote:
It's amazing but having an unstoppable mid range jumper /-game truly opens up EVERY Space on the court up for a player
Because it's a notoriously low-percentage shot. Therefore, defenses encourage the offense to utilize it.
If you're hitting it at an efficient rate, the defensive scheme collapses.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 11:12 pm to PrimeTime Money
How old are you?
You can give me an age range if you don't want to say exactly.
You can give me an age range if you don't want to say exactly.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 11:14 pm to AlaTiger
quote:57.
How old are you?
You can give me an age range if you don't want to say exactly.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 11:15 pm to PrimeTime Money
Hand-checking was mostly illegal by then. But it was a big part of the game in the early '90s (Starks on MJ).
As for these brief clips, someone could easily post highlights of LeBron barreling down the lane like a freight train and getting easy bucket after easy bucket. Not much is proven.
Ultimately you're dealing with two completely different eras in terms of rules and the types of schemes and players to accommodate those rules. It hasn't been long enough for athleticism to change much. Personally, I enjoy the style of play better today (which was the purpose of the rule changes in the early 2000s), but I enjoyed the top tier stars and rivalries of the '90s more than that of the present. Overall I don't particularly think one era is better than the other in terms of talent.
As for these brief clips, someone could easily post highlights of LeBron barreling down the lane like a freight train and getting easy bucket after easy bucket. Not much is proven.
Ultimately you're dealing with two completely different eras in terms of rules and the types of schemes and players to accommodate those rules. It hasn't been long enough for athleticism to change much. Personally, I enjoy the style of play better today (which was the purpose of the rule changes in the early 2000s), but I enjoyed the top tier stars and rivalries of the '90s more than that of the present. Overall I don't particularly think one era is better than the other in terms of talent.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 11:15 pm to AlaTiger
quote:
How old are you?
What kind of insulting question is that?
Rein in that Age Privilege, Grand-Dad
Posted on 4/16/15 at 11:16 pm to DollaChoppa
quote:
And a lot of the guys who are insanely athletic focus on driving to the rim to score. So they may not focus on their shooting technique. I think this is a big reason why we may have the idea that the players are better than ever, because there is so many more athletic players, even if they arent technically sound. These guys probably fall into two groups. A) guys who can hit open shots to go along with their driving buckets and B) guys who cant i.e. great college studs who cant hack it in the league. Think Austin Rivers type. But in general both A and B arent sound shooters when presented with a guarded shot
This is all a good post and I think that you are right. The insanely athletic guys rely on that and don't develop their game the way they should. What made Jordan so great is that he went from the insanely athletic guy in the 80s who couldn't get out of the first round of the playoffs to the great shooter/team player in the 90s who elevated his overall game to heights we had not seen. He overlapped and did both extremely well.
The reason that he did this is because he wanted to win more than anything. He was obsessed with it and he changed his game to do so. Winning mattered more to him than his individual game.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 11:17 pm to mattz1122
quote:And unbelievably Jordan's best numbers came in the 80's and early 90's when the game was so "brutal" and everybody was hand-checking and offensive players couldn't even get a shot off.
Hand-checking was mostly illegal by then. But it was a big part of the game in the early '90s (Starks on MJ).
This post was edited on 4/16/15 at 11:20 pm
Posted on 4/16/15 at 11:17 pm to DollaChoppa
quote:
a lot of the guys who are insanely athletic focus on driving to the rim to score. So they may not focus on their shooting technique. I think this is a big reason why we may have the idea that the players are better than ever, because there is so many more athletic players, even if they arent technically sound.
Vince Carter says hello.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 11:19 pm to FightinTigersDammit
I'm not your Granddad.
I'm nowhere near old enough to be anyone's Granddad.
Maybe your father if you are a kid. Most likely, your older brother who beats you at everything.
I'm nowhere near old enough to be anyone's Granddad.
Maybe your father if you are a kid. Most likely, your older brother who beats you at everything.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 11:21 pm to TbirdSpur2010
I find it funny when the people that act like the 90s were so forever ago, and that we have evolved and left that generation in the dust....then complain that college basketball is worst its ever been. You would think the way we have evolved into genetic freaks that college basketball would be best its ever been even with freshman.
Its amazing how many people that barely saw him play think someone like Dennis Rodman couldn't rebound and play defense just as good as he did allllll the way back in the 90s
Its amazing how many people that barely saw him play think someone like Dennis Rodman couldn't rebound and play defense just as good as he did allllll the way back in the 90s
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