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Message
House I'm looking at- advice requested
Posted on 4/15/15 at 2:35 pm
Posted on 4/15/15 at 2:35 pm
I'm looking at a beautiful historic home (all brick, built in 1864,~3,000 square feet above ground, see LINK here) on quite a few acres, but I'm struggling on the uncertainties involved with the heating and cooling costs. The house used ~3,300 gallons of propane over the past year (here in Indiana we've had two brutal winters, but that's still an insane usage) and the average electricity cost is ~$288/month. So as it stands right now the average utility bills are ~$800/month. The seller has put in open loop geothermal this past winter(but hasn't actually used it yet), and is willing to upgrade to a closed loop geothermal before closing. Even with an awesome closed loop geothermal system, is there anyway it could reduce the utility bills to a manageable level of $300-$400/month average? If you were looking at buying this house, how much would you discount your purchase price to absorb that kind of uncertainty on utility costs?
This post was edited on 4/15/15 at 2:39 pm
6
Posted on 4/15/15 at 2:41 pm to GeneralLee
That place is definitely haunted
Posted on 4/15/15 at 2:52 pm to DirtyMikeandtheBoys
Now, I'm from the hot, humid, coastal south, so I don't know jack about heating costs. But I do know that windows lose heat--ask questions about the windows. Are they double glazed? Did the owners put up storms and/or thermal drapes during winter? Did they own a dog (or a couple of kids) who went in and out of the double front doors 10X a day during a blizzard?
IOW, ask some pointed questions about consumption to help figure out if the previous owners were profligate energy users who liked to walk around in their undies, or whether the house completely lacks any sort of modern insulation at all. If you lack the expertise, hire a contractor for a consult about adding insulation to the interior walls & attic. You might even find a person qualified to do an energy audit on the house.
It appears 3-story--where are the principal living areas to be heated? My grandma lived in a seriously drafty historic home; she managed in winter by not using certain rooms and selectively supplementing the key areas with space heaters. She didn't need to heat the dining room w/15' ceilings every damn day if no one was using it.
IOW, ask some pointed questions about consumption to help figure out if the previous owners were profligate energy users who liked to walk around in their undies, or whether the house completely lacks any sort of modern insulation at all. If you lack the expertise, hire a contractor for a consult about adding insulation to the interior walls & attic. You might even find a person qualified to do an energy audit on the house.
It appears 3-story--where are the principal living areas to be heated? My grandma lived in a seriously drafty historic home; she managed in winter by not using certain rooms and selectively supplementing the key areas with space heaters. She didn't need to heat the dining room w/15' ceilings every damn day if no one was using it.
Posted on 4/15/15 at 3:17 pm to hungryone
Why not just call a home inspector and ask him to go over the house and pay special attention to HVAC leak points that may create hot or cold zones in your home (places that stay cold or hot no matter what you adjust the thermostat to). There are usually design flaws or insulation leaks.
You may be able to get out with some double-paned glass windows and some work to seal the windowpanes. It may take a little more.
But if its a historic home, you need to be VERY careful about ordinances regarding how much work-if any-can be done to mitidate the concerns you have.
You may be able to get out with some double-paned glass windows and some work to seal the windowpanes. It may take a little more.
But if its a historic home, you need to be VERY careful about ordinances regarding how much work-if any-can be done to mitidate the concerns you have.
This post was edited on 4/15/15 at 3:18 pm
Posted on 4/15/15 at 3:58 pm to GFunk
quote:
Why not just call a home inspector and ask him to go over the house and pay special attention to HVAC leak points that may create hot or cold zones in your home (places that stay cold or hot no matter what you adjust the thermostat to).
Because a home inspector wouldn't know an air leak if it was coming out of his own a-hole. They are worthless.
You can call an insulation or HVAC company to give you an energy loss analysis that would be way more beneficial.
Posted on 4/15/15 at 4:18 pm to GeneralLee
1) likely poor insulation. raised house will need insulation under the house as well
we liked in a house in BR on Park Blvd (turn onf ther century 1900's house) that my grandfather built, when i was a kid, and i remember my parents having to get blown in insulation in the walls, new insulation under the house, and a plexiglas "second Pane" to the windows.
2) windows likely leak, single pane, high E
But building around that time frame were not built with A/C in mind. the were meant to have leaks everywhere because in summers you needed to get the heat out. they had high ceilings and the house i lived in as a kid had windows above the door to let air flow through out the house.
geo-thermal will help heat the house, but expects cold floor, draftiness, and hot and cold zones throughout unless you drop some money on insulation.
we liked in a house in BR on Park Blvd (turn onf ther century 1900's house) that my grandfather built, when i was a kid, and i remember my parents having to get blown in insulation in the walls, new insulation under the house, and a plexiglas "second Pane" to the windows.
2) windows likely leak, single pane, high E
But building around that time frame were not built with A/C in mind. the were meant to have leaks everywhere because in summers you needed to get the heat out. they had high ceilings and the house i lived in as a kid had windows above the door to let air flow through out the house.
geo-thermal will help heat the house, but expects cold floor, draftiness, and hot and cold zones throughout unless you drop some money on insulation.
Posted on 4/15/15 at 6:38 pm to GeneralLee
call the local utility company and ask them for an energy audit
Posted on 4/15/15 at 10:01 pm to GeneralLee
$300-$400 is "manageable" Jesus H Christ!
No offense but just looking at that one picture, that's a pretty meh house for that type of cost. Mortgage better be cheap.
No offense but just looking at that one picture, that's a pretty meh house for that type of cost. Mortgage better be cheap.
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:27 am to poochie
It's on 13 acres (with a pond, fences, etc.) and has two barns, one is a 3500 square foot Morton barn. Property is listed for $475K (we would be offering a lot less), but lot is worth probably ~$200K, barns ~40K, and house would be the remainder (<= $235K).
Does anyone have an idea what it would cost to do spray foam insulation in the attic and basement?
Does anyone have an idea what it would cost to do spray foam insulation in the attic and basement?
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:30 am to GeneralLee
You need to walk that house with a FLIR camera and see how it looks...
Posted on 4/16/15 at 10:32 am to GeneralLee
Posted on 4/17/15 at 7:28 am to GeneralLee
quote:
Does anyone have an idea what it would cost to do spray foam insulation in the attic and basement?
This would certainly help but your gains would be minimal if your windows are inadequate and exterior wall insulation was not at a current acceptable value. Most old homes built in that era that Ive dealt with are lacking in the areas I mentioned. If your still dealing with single pain windows you are just wasting money with the attic foam.
Posted on 4/17/15 at 8:07 am to poochie
quote:
$300-$400 is "manageable" Jesus H Christ!
No offense but just looking at that one picture, that's a pretty meh house for that type of cost. Mortgage better be cheap.
I think the house is pretty cool. $300-400 is a reasonable energy cost for a house like that.
Posted on 4/17/15 at 8:16 am to GeneralLee
quote:
Does anyone have an idea what it would cost to do spray foam insulation in the attic and basement?
Probably 8-10K if you do closed cell.
Posted on 4/17/15 at 8:27 am to lsufan1971
You need an HVAC specialist to look over your systems before you go spray foaming anything. Sealing up attic and basement may require make up air, and how much will depend on the sort of boiler/heater system, etc.
Posted on 4/18/15 at 10:19 am to GeneralLee
I've lived in houses constructed in 1858, 1940, 1962, 1972 and 1994.
The best aesthetically was the oldest. It was and is eye candy, like your potential purchase. If you have to worry about being able to financially swing it, you can't afford it. A house that is one hundred and fiddy years old is trying to fall apart on you. All houses are, that one has a huge jumpstart on my present house. The construction techniques and technology in it are antiquated and most of the time impediments to modern technology.
My 1994 house is wonderful.
Sorry to be a downer here, it is beautiful. It looks like it should have been in Groundhog Day.
The best aesthetically was the oldest. It was and is eye candy, like your potential purchase. If you have to worry about being able to financially swing it, you can't afford it. A house that is one hundred and fiddy years old is trying to fall apart on you. All houses are, that one has a huge jumpstart on my present house. The construction techniques and technology in it are antiquated and most of the time impediments to modern technology.
My 1994 house is wonderful.
Sorry to be a downer here, it is beautiful. It looks like it should have been in Groundhog Day.
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