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re: Would you rather? (Saints Draft Ed.)
Posted on 3/31/15 at 7:04 pm to THRILLHO
Posted on 3/31/15 at 7:04 pm to THRILLHO
If I was NE or Sea and perhaps Denver I might take that approach Thrill.
Its been done once before (with one player) and ridiculed justly and this is just one player away from that.
Seems a great draft for depth in a lot of positions we actually need. Would hate to waste that.
Its been done once before (with one player) and ridiculed justly and this is just one player away from that.
Seems a great draft for depth in a lot of positions we actually need. Would hate to waste that.
1
Posted on 3/31/15 at 7:06 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
applies to the #1 overall to the last guy taken. Nothing is guaranteed.
Yeah but the #1 overall pick has a hell of a lot better chance of being a star than Mr. Irrelevant. There's a reason he's the number one player taken.
I really do think both are safer than anybody else we're looking at later in the draft, especially at 31.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 7:20 pm to goatmilker
quote:
If I was NE or Sea and perhaps Denver I might take that approach Thrill.
I agree that it makes more sense for a SB contender. I don't know if we're quite there right now, but I do think that, barring major injury, we'll be a 10 win team. People are overlooking that we've gone from absolute dogshit at #2 CB to a good player along with forgetting that Byrd is a top 5 safety in the NFL. I don't give a shite that he came in off of an injury, not having any time to get acquainted with the system and sucked for his few games with us (plus RR horribly misused him). He's going to make a MASSIVE difference.
quote:
Its been done once before (with one player) and ridiculed justly and this is just one player away from that.
But it's not one player. It's two. We traded most of our drafts for Ricky Williams and the defensive tackle who shall not be named and blew it. The Falcons traded a ton to get Julio Jones and he's been amazing. It's all about properly gauging when it's worth it. We would be trading an entire draft not only for two chances at finding a stud, but a chance to get two studs. I get that we can find two studs standing pat with 9 picks, but look at it from a purely objective standpoint: it would take almost everything we have in this draft to move up to #1. Having no more draft picks this year, it would take something insane like our next 3 first round picks to move up to #2. Any GM would place more value on #1 and #2 than they would #13,31, 44, etc...
Not only that, but we've been maybe the best team in the NFL at finding UDFAs.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 7:20 pm to PurpleDrank18
I mean, say you can get Ray at 13 and Dupree at 31... and then your full allotment of picks. It's not even close for me. Or Hau'oli Kikaha or Nate Orchard at 31, two guys who got to the QB way more than Leonard Williams did playing the Pac 12. I know college starts arent everything, but shite.
Ray and Dupree outproduced Folwer against the same competition and even still, they had impressive combines. Even if Fowler "projects" to be better, the gap isnt big enough to lose a whole draft over two guys.
Ray and Dupree outproduced Folwer against the same competition and even still, they had impressive combines. Even if Fowler "projects" to be better, the gap isnt big enough to lose a whole draft over two guys.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 7:25 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
It's not even close for me. Or Hau'oli Kikaha or Nate Orchard at 31, two guys who got to the QB way more than Leonard Williams did playing the Pac 12.
Dude, those two played very different roles. They were both played DE/OLB that focused on rushing the QB. Williams was mostly an interior player.
This post was edited on 3/31/15 at 7:27 pm
Posted on 3/31/15 at 7:35 pm to GynoSandberg
quote:
Ray at 13
Don't want but that's an opinion. Plus Ray is a pure pass rusher IMO, Fowler is more versatile, and can fill in the SAM role opposite of Gallete.
quote:
Dupree at 31
Absolutely no way he falls this far.
quote:
Hau'oli Kikaha or Nate Orchard at 31, two guys who got to the QB way more than Leonard Williams did playing the Pac 12.
Yeah because they played completely different positions. Orchard and Kikaha were EDGE guys and Williams was interior DLine. It's not surprising at all that two edge rushers accumulated more sacks than a DT.
and again those guys have big question marks and are just pas rushers. Not as versatile as Fowler or Dupree.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 7:42 pm to PurpleDrank18
quote:
cap for 2 guys would be a lot less than 9, if 5 of them turned into viable starters. But that wasn't part of the scenario.
yea in the short term.
It wont be when they replace higher paid players though (cam jordan, Jahri, colston, etc)
Posted on 3/31/15 at 7:47 pm to Lester Earl
quote:
It wont be when they replace higher paid players though (cam jordan, Jahri, colston, etc)
I think I'm the only person in NOLA that still thinks that Cam is a stud. Our DT's and secondary played like arse last season, so his numbers dropped off from his studly 2013 season even though his play was almost as good. Ditto Juneyah.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 7:52 pm to THRILLHO
i like him too. just using him as an example.
If we draft an edge rusher or a DE, and he plays well as a rookie, Jr or Cam could be expendable
If we draft an edge rusher or a DE, and he plays well as a rookie, Jr or Cam could be expendable
Posted on 3/31/15 at 7:54 pm to THRILLHO
I know they played different roles (Williams does lineup more on the tackle than he does in the interior, fwiw). Im not trying to take anything away from Williams, just illustrating the fact that there is talent throughout the 1st rd and the entire draft, really, that makes taking 2 guys over the full allotment crazy.
As for Fowler being a more complete player than Ray--> Ray is still +7 in TFL and +1 in fumbles forced over Fowler in 2014. Im not convinced Fowler is head and shoulders better and worth selling a whole draft.
As for Dupree not being there, you never know. Dude is mocked all over the place from the teens to late 20s. McShay and Bucky Brooks have him at 24 in their most recent. Zierlien and 2 CBS guys have him at 22. Rob Rang from CBS has him at 29.
As for Fowler being a more complete player than Ray--> Ray is still +7 in TFL and +1 in fumbles forced over Fowler in 2014. Im not convinced Fowler is head and shoulders better and worth selling a whole draft.
As for Dupree not being there, you never know. Dude is mocked all over the place from the teens to late 20s. McShay and Bucky Brooks have him at 24 in their most recent. Zierlien and 2 CBS guys have him at 22. Rob Rang from CBS has him at 29.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 8:07 pm to ClientNumber9
A, A, 1000 times A
Champions aren't built off 2 draft picks. Period
Champions aren't built off 2 draft picks. Period
Posted on 3/31/15 at 8:13 pm to GynoSandberg
When I was comparing Ray and Fowler it wasn't stats, it was play style. Ray is a Gallete clone, as far as play goes. Fowler would be able to play the strong side (which I don't think Ray can).
I'm not saying there isn't talent in this draft, I'm just saying I'd rather take the two guys with the highest upsides and less risk and have 2 stud defensive cornerstones than picks outside the top 70. Yes there are plenty of players who turn out to be really good from the later rounds, but for every one of those there's probably 20 that didn't do anything. And don't get me wrong I'm not saying busting is mutually exclusive to later rounds, just the risk is higher.
I'm not saying there isn't talent in this draft, I'm just saying I'd rather take the two guys with the highest upsides and less risk and have 2 stud defensive cornerstones than picks outside the top 70. Yes there are plenty of players who turn out to be really good from the later rounds, but for every one of those there's probably 20 that didn't do anything. And don't get me wrong I'm not saying busting is mutually exclusive to later rounds, just the risk is higher.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 8:17 pm to PurpleDrank18
quote:
Ray is a Gallete clone, as far as play goes. Fowler would be able to play the strong side (which I don't think Ray can).
I don't disagree with Fowler being a more versatile player than Ray, Junior has played LDE (strongside) effectively in the past. Unless you're talking about strongside 3-4 OLB, but that position is of very little value.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 8:33 pm to PurpleDrank18
Im not trying to get too deep into a debate here with this hypothetical, but the stats reflect the play style, yes?
Williams and Fowler's supposed upside isn't great enough over the other guys for me. Someone has to be labeled the top guys (Williams deserves this, not debating that) in a field full of similar players. Fowler to Ray to Gregory etc, though? They are all right there for me.
Who knows how they turn out, though. Draft experts arent even draft experts. Good talent evaluators get it wrong every year.
Williams and Fowler's supposed upside isn't great enough over the other guys for me. Someone has to be labeled the top guys (Williams deserves this, not debating that) in a field full of similar players. Fowler to Ray to Gregory etc, though? They are all right there for me.
Who knows how they turn out, though. Draft experts arent even draft experts. Good talent evaluators get it wrong every year.
Posted on 3/31/15 at 8:34 pm to ClientNumber9
What if you could trade all of this years picks for two players from last years draft? OBJ and Kalil Mack?
Posted on 3/31/15 at 8:35 pm to Suntiger
quote:
What if you could trade all of this years picks for two players from last years draft? OBJ and Kalil Mack?
now would maybe consider this. Consdiering how terrible we've been at drafting defense. Would alleviate some risk
Posted on 4/1/15 at 2:58 pm to Suntiger
quote:
What if you could trade all of this years picks for two players from last years draft? OBJ and Kalil Mack?
Anyone who says no to this Captain Hindsight scenario is an idiot.
Posted on 4/1/15 at 3:23 pm to ClientNumber9
marcus peters from Washington and Alvin Dupree from kentucky
Posted on 4/1/15 at 3:29 pm to burasjr123
quote:
marcus peters from Washington and Alvin Dupree from kentucky
Could probably get both of these without trading the whole draft.
Posted on 4/3/15 at 6:35 am to ClientNumber9
Use our 9 picks as they are and hope for some late round picks that pan out. We have too many needs.
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