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Started By
Message
re: Kris Bryant Board: Boras still stumping for things that won't happen...
Posted on 3/27/15 at 12:46 pm to HoustonTiger2008
Posted on 3/27/15 at 12:46 pm to HoustonTiger2008
quote:
I've thought you guys were pretty cool, but now we're resorting to calling people dumb when they don't see the exact same way you do.
No one has called anyone dumb.
quote:
There are more people than just Curt Schilling that think Kris Bryant should be on the Opening Day roster.
And there are more people than buster onley who knows he won't and why he shouldn't be.
quote:
I don't need to "believe" you.
But I need to believe you that they will extend him?
quote:
You most assuredly cannot predict what will happen before the year 2021 arrives with a team and a player in negotiating a contract.
isn't that what you're doing? I've repeatedly said i don't want to gamble with that extra year for 9 games. The gamble being that he doesn't sign. You're the one saying they will extend him.
My position on why it's unlikey is based off how Boars clients in the past (and even the explicit statement) do not sign extension and test free agency.
This post was edited on 3/27/15 at 12:49 pm
1
Posted on 3/27/15 at 12:50 pm to The Sad Banana
quote:
I realized I spelled Curt's name with a K earlier and for that I offer no apologies.
I figured it was just the natural evolution of his name.*
*yea...shoehorned that hacky joke right on in there.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 12:52 pm to HoustonTiger2008
quote:There are plenty. That list is long. No one ever said anyone was dumb for thinking that.
There are more people than just Curt Schilling that think Kris Bryant should be on the Opening Day roster.
We're just of the opinion that keeping Bryant out of MLB for 9 games is the best thing for the Cubs to do now and long term.
When you boil it down, it comes to this...9 games vs. 162 games. That's a lot of Kris Bryant on the other side of that equation. I don't think 9 games will make or break the Cubs season at all.
And another thing...I heard Tim K. and some other people say the Cubs were "going for it" in 2015. I don't know where that comes from. The Cubs are strategically adding pieces now because they can and they have a great long term plan. The Lester move, the Fowler move...those things were all part of the plan.
Yes, they want to make the playoffs. But let's be real here...they may be around an 82-84 win team. That may not be enough Kris Bryant or not. That's a 9-11 win improvement over last year which is a massive success.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 12:53 pm to piggidyphish
quote:
But I need to believe you that they will extend him?
I don't care what you believe. I didn't say they would. I said I HOPE they would. Holding hope on the 2 beliefs I listed earlier was backing my reasoning for wanting Bryant to be on the Opening Day Roster. If I knew there was a 0% chance Bryant would sign an extension before he became a FA I would think harder about my stance.
quote:
isn't that what you're doing?
No. Not at all. I'm not making predictions about anything. I simply said my hope for what happens and backed it up with 2 things that I really hope would happen. That's not a prediction. It is what would happen in an ideal situation to me.
After hearing Epstein talk last night, there is almost no chance that Bryant will start in the big leagues. I don't have any problem if that ends of being the decision. Coghlan had a decent enough year last year and Mike Olt has had a great Spring. Even Junior Lake has played really well and could fill in in LF.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 12:55 pm to The Sad Banana
quote:
And another thing...I heard Tim K. and some other people say the Cubs were "going for it" in 2015. I don't know where that comes from.
Right...if the cubs were going for it, we'd have given into Amaro's absurd demands and hammels would be a cub.
quote:
Yes, they want to make the playoffs. But let's be real here...they may be around an 82-84 win team. That may not be enough Kris Bryant or not. That's a 9-11 win improvement over last year which is a massive success.
I still think they can be a WC2 team. But even with my over the top optimism I don't see it as a deep playoff run. Hell it could be just one extra game. They're a year ahead of schedule by my count, so this year is just gravy.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 12:56 pm to The Sad Banana
quote:
We're just of the opinion that keeping Bryant out of MLB for 9 games is the best thing for the Cubs to do now and long term.
Fair enough. No doubt that it is the best thing to do for them for the long term. I just think with the moves they have made they are also ready to compete for a playoff spot in 2015. Do I think it will likely make a difference to have Bryant for those 9 games? No. Do I think it could? Eh, maybe.
quote:
And another thing...I heard Tim K. and some other people say the Cubs were "going for it" in 2015. I don't know where that comes from. The Cubs are strategically adding pieces now because they can and they have a great long term plan. The Lester move, the Fowler move...those things were all part of the plan.
100% agree with you here. If they were "going for it" in 2015 they would have gone harder after James Shields. I think there will be another hard push for a SP after a successful 2015 campaign. I also wouldn't put it out of the realm of possibility to go after a guy like Cole Hamels around the deadline if they are hanging around in the race.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 12:57 pm to piggidyphish
Right...and I don't want to make it sound like I'm reserved to watch the Cubs lose for years to come and that I have no expectations. But I temper them nowadays. I do think the Cubs will improve this year. But I'm not so certain it will be enough to make the playoffs, although they could make a real interesting go of it.
A lot of that could depend on what's going on with them and the NL Central at the trade deadline, too.
A lot of that could depend on what's going on with them and the NL Central at the trade deadline, too.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 12:57 pm to piggidyphish
quote:
I don't see it as a deep playoff run
Eh, even if they won 1 single game it would be a better run than 2007 and 2008.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 12:58 pm to HoustonTiger2008
quote:I think next offseason is when you will see the Cubs really spend on pitching. Guys like David Price and Jordan Zimmerman will be available and the Cubs had already entertained the Nationals about a Zimmerman deal this winter.
I think there will be another hard push for a SP after a successful 2015 campaign.
I think the David Price thing was all media-driving hype, but I have a feeling the Zimmerman interest is deep. That's purely speculation, though.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 1:01 pm to HoustonTiger2008
quote:
I didn't say they would.
you see how i'm confused, right?
quote:
I would tend to think that anyone saying they want Bryant on the Opening Day roster believes two things...2. Bryant will be a very good player and the Cubs will extend him way before he becomes a FA, thus making the whole service time thing irrelevant.
That reads like the belief is there that he will sign an extension. Something I think is a lot more unlikely, than likely.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 1:02 pm to The Sad Banana
quote:
I think the David Price thing was all media-driving hype, but I have a feeling the Zimmerman interest is deep. That's purely speculation, though.
I think zimmerman is the most likely (which would be great). price, forgive the pun will be pricey, and according to my DC family guys affiliated with the nats, they're not confident about an extension and he wants to get back to the midwest.
This post was edited on 3/27/15 at 1:16 pm
Posted on 3/27/15 at 1:05 pm to piggidyphish
quote:
That reads like the belief is there that he will sign an extension. Something I think is a lot more unlikely, than likely.
My belief is the percent chance he resigns with the Cubs is the same whether it's 2020 or 2021.
without a salary cap and Cubs projected financial situation, IDGAF if we unload the bank in 2020 for him, assuming good health and the expected production.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 1:06 pm to piggidyphish
Sorry for the confusion then. No, I'm not trying to make a prediction on what I think will happen. If I am going to say I would like to see Kris Bryant on the Opening Day roster I am saying that I would be hopeful that those 2 things happen. If you don't think there is any chance of them happening, then you don't have any logical basis for believing Bryant should be on the Opening Day Roster. So, IF he makes it then I really HOPE those 2 things happen. If he doesn't make the roster, then I still hope both of them happen, but it doesn't really matter.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 1:15 pm to Toula
quote:
My belief is the percent chance he resigns with the Cubs is the same whether it's 2020 or 2021.
Yea but you're talking FA signing, right? Id rather it not reach that point in 2020 and be after 2021 season.
quote:
without a salary cap and Cubs projected financial situation, IDGAF if we unload the bank in 2020 for him, assuming good health and the expected production.
Since you admitted to it earlier, i'll admit i'm playing devils advocate here, but...do you think the yankees thought the same thing when Cano reached FA (also a boras client at one time)?
This post was edited on 3/27/15 at 1:22 pm
Posted on 3/27/15 at 1:20 pm to Toula
Again, Scott Boras likes his clients to get to free agency. The Cubs know that and are thinking they have to maximize his team control if the worst happens. And both parties know what kind of player they are likely dealing with here. The Cubs and Scott Boras know this player will likely cost a haul to keep in Chicago and that's fine. So why not hold off a year?
Posted on 3/27/15 at 1:24 pm to piggidyphish
quote:
i'll admit i'm playing devils advocate here, but...do you think the yankees thought the same thing when Cano reached FA?
this is why this argument is so fascinating on both sides. B/c there's a point/counterpoint for everything.
Trout, Springer, Stanton, Tulowitzki, Rizzo....all extended before the rookie deal is up.
I get the whole Boras strategy. But he had clients like Cargo, Weaver, and Andrus sign extensions before free agency.
If we through a Stanton like extension at him, how do you turn that down? Time value of money comes into play too. Start the clock a few years earlier on a multi-million dollar deal can far exceed the huge contract years later.
Posted on 3/27/15 at 1:40 pm to Toula
quote:
Trout, Springer, Stanton, Tulowitzki, Rizzo....all extended before the rookie deal is up.
just to continue the point counterpoint thing.
Ellsbury, Scherzer, Fielder,Matt Holliday...all Boras clients (i think).
quote:
Rizzo
But didn't Jed hold him down in SD when he was ready (maybe even past super 2 status) thus facilitating a deal as they were buying out another arbitration year?
quote:
Cargo, Weaver, and Andrus sign extensions before free agency.
If you add varitek i think that list would be complete of players (at least upper echelon) that he represents that have signed an extension.
quote:
If we through a Stanton like extension at him, how do you turn that down?
I don't think we do opt outs, which is good. Albeit stanton would be silly to opt out as most of the big money comes after his opportunity to opt out, but it's still there. And the opt out is one reason (along with 325million other reasons) stanton signed it.
This post was edited on 3/27/15 at 1:41 pm
Posted on 3/27/15 at 2:46 pm to piggidyphish
Posted on 3/27/15 at 2:51 pm to Hold my beer
My one fear in all of this is that Boras will poison Bryant's attitude toward the organization to where isn't the best teammate he can be, or the cubs have no chance of resigning him, in which case it is good that they are keeping him under their control for an additional year.
Posted on 3/30/15 at 12:02 pm to TigerFanatic99
quote:
David Kaplan ?@thekapman 4m4 minutes ago The Cubs have sent Javy Baez, Kris Bryant and Addison Russell to minor league camp
Baez surprises me, not because I didn't think it was a very real possibility, but because of how much maddon has been heaping praise on his defense and natural ability.
Gordo article bashing the cubs somehow in 3...2..1..
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