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Message
re: Whiplash is very overrated imo....SPOILERS
Posted on 3/23/15 at 10:38 pm to Tiger Voodoo
Posted on 3/23/15 at 10:38 pm to Tiger Voodoo
My girlfriend is a classically trained pianist from NOCCA and a Music Minor from Loyola. She has performed anything from Ludwig Van Beethoven to Sergei Rachmaninoff Symphonies at the Mahalia Jackson Theater...you may be surprised in how many endless hours are dedicated to performing these types of pieces regardless of the time already put into learning that particular instrument.
a light day of practice consists of 4 hours a day.
You can imagine what Music Majors at a Juliard level school would have to do in order to stand out in a rigorous program at a Musical Major level school on par with a Juliard.(what you are lead to believe this school is on par with).
Good film I agree...over the top in parts but isn't Braveheart and Gladiator also over the top?
a light day of practice consists of 4 hours a day.
You can imagine what Music Majors at a Juliard level school would have to do in order to stand out in a rigorous program at a Musical Major level school on par with a Juliard.(what you are lead to believe this school is on par with).
Good film I agree...over the top in parts but isn't Braveheart and Gladiator also over the top?
0
Posted on 3/23/15 at 10:54 pm to Tiger Voodoo
When pushing yourself for hours, it become different. Add in his frustrations and fears that his tyrannical teacher put on everyone to strive for perfection at the best place you can be. Fear of losing your seat..
I mean hell, after about twenty minutes of solid drumming its a workout. You abandon the loose grip from the lubrication from the sweat. Some people wear gloves but I never did and I remember those damn blisters.
I mean hell, after about twenty minutes of solid drumming its a workout. You abandon the loose grip from the lubrication from the sweat. Some people wear gloves but I never did and I remember those damn blisters.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 11:00 pm to SEClint
Gotcha. That's why I didn't include it as a fault of the film in my diatribe. Just something I noticed and wondered about. Glad soneone with knowledge cleared that up 
Posted on 3/23/15 at 11:12 pm to Tiger Voodoo
My first kit was made by Pearl, export select series. Six piece (double bass) and zildjian cymbals. I was always more into metal, but the style of drumming in the film requires and demands a lot. You really have to know when to be delicate, the right size sticks, what kind of tips on the sticks. All that makes a difference in tone. Having the heads tuned right etc.
Loved the ending, though they didn't get along they had common respect.
Loved the ending, though they didn't get along they had common respect.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 11:27 pm to Tiger Voodoo
I gave it a try after hearing how good it was on here. I couldn't get through it. I was literally falling asleep.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 11:37 pm to Tiger Voodoo
I enjoyed it. It was good not great. And yea, it was not great to me for some of the same reasons you cited.
Posted on 3/23/15 at 11:55 pm to davesdawgs
Well the overwhelming majority think it's fantastic. 95% on rotten tomatoes is pretty telling. Oscar awards, very much deserving of them.
This post was edited on 3/23/15 at 11:56 pm
Posted on 3/24/15 at 12:50 am to Tiger Voodoo
quote:
The Teller character was a complete mess from one scene to the next.
He was an obsessive narcissist just like Simmons, just way more anxious and without personal relationships.
quote:
He's the most driven, obsessive drumming prodigy of all time who practices until he's soaking wet and his hands bleed, yet oversleeps on the morning of his first day in the big league class
He had to be there at 6 in the morning. Not like he overslept his exam during a noon class because he went out and got drunk
quote:
loses his sheet music multiple times
I remember it happening once and it wasn't his music, it was the dick first chair that was trying to belittle him. Also either Fletcher took it or the janitor thought it was trash and picked it up
quote:
and has the added extremely contrived disaster of being the only band member on the one bus that happens to get a flat tire before the big show
Well it seemed like everybody else had a car or carpooled and highlighted the isolation of Andrew that he used public transportation by himself.
quote:
then the drumming obsessed prodigy FORGETS HIS STICKS after renting a car right as the rental agency
He was trying to haul arse to make the concert in time
quote:
then happens to get T-boned right in his driver's side door BY A MACK TRUCK
That'll happen when you blow through a Stop sign while talking on a cell phone
quote:
luckily his only injuries are a scratch on his head and his hand (still ok to drum though just enough to look dramatically bloody while doing so
He seemed obviously concussed to me and his hand was injured badly enough for him to not hold the stick
quote:
He's also a wall flower too nervous to talk to the cute girl at the concession stand
He asked her out without knowing her name or giving her his and got a yes. I'd think even the OT ballers would acknowledge thats quite an accomplishment
And the reason he is a wall flower is because he is an obsessive narcissist that only cares about getting Fletcher's attention and becoming a drumming legend. We don't see him lamenting his isolation because he doesn't care and he even breaks up with his girlfriend because he knows he cares about drumming and himself more than her and their relationship.
quote:
doesn't hesitate to openly mock and taunt his jock uncle and football playing cousins
Because he is a narcissist and was upset that they were getting attention for their accomplishments while he wasn't
quote:
no one finds this the least bit out of the ordinary although its almost certainly the first time hes done so
Why do you think its the first time hes done so? I got the "here we go again" vibe from the rest of the family.
quote:
lso curse out and ridicule the cool drummer brought in to challenge him, calling him a mick frick at one point???
It wasn't a random drummer, it was the drummer that he was behind before Fletcher called him up. Andrew sees that Fletcher isn't really interested in the "mick frick" but is just using him to aggravate and get under Andrew's skin. Andrew and the "mick frick" obviously didn't have a good relationship when Andrew was his second chair.
quote:
cursing out the hardass legendary teacher that could make or break his entire career/life as well
Verbal and emotional outburst seem to be something Andrew does regularly. Again, I'm not sure why you thought it was the first time he'd lashed out at his cousins.
quote:
It makes me wonder (or hope) if the writer actually wrote a more compelling and believable story/character but Teller in his young actor pride/bravado was just like this guy is too much of a pussy/bore so I need make him more interesting and I'll do that by having some dramatic yelling scenes where I show these guys how much of a DAUNTLESS I am and went full Jon Moxon on his arse (frick KILMER)!!!
His outbursts are intentionally put into the story to further highlight that Fletcher and Andrew are extremely similar. They are both obsessive narcissists prone to verbal tirades. Sorry it went over your head.
quote:
Simmons had a fun part, although a guy like that would have been fired years before in the current social climate. Maybe a line setting this in the 80s or 90s would have made the character's aggressive language technique and physically assaultive behavior more believable. But no way would this fly in today's world.
1. It didn't fly in today's world. He got fired.
2. The lady clearly says that no one had come forward about Fletcher's abuse. Why would the school fire him if no one would testify about his abuse?
tl;dr- The reason you think Whiplash is "very overrated" is your fault, not the movie's (which is great)
This post was edited on 3/24/15 at 12:58 am
Posted on 3/24/15 at 4:03 am to Cockopotamus
:boomgif:
Posted on 3/24/15 at 5:56 am to Cockopotamus
quote:
Because he is a narcissist and was upset that they were getting attention for their accomplishments while he wasn't
It's DIVISION III!
This post was edited on 3/24/15 at 5:57 am
Posted on 3/24/15 at 6:24 am to Cockopotamus
quote:
He had to be there at 6 in the morning. Not like he overslept his exam during a noon class because he went out and got drunk
I know it's been a LONG time since I was in college, but I understand that 6 AM seemed like an ungodly hour to some jerk off college kid that doesn't schedule class before noon like I did. But we're led to believe this is NOT some jerk off college kid.
He is an "obsessive narcissist", according to you, completely obsessed with becoming the greatest drummer in the world, and just got his call up to the big time by the man that will make or break his entire existence. Again, it would be like Maverick sleeping in on his first day at Top Gun.
And it was 6 AM, not 4 AM. Not anywhere unreasonable enough to believe that he would simply oversleep. It's not even like we see him up all night practicing, or tossing and turning because he's too nervous/excited. He just sleeps in.
They could have even tried to tie it in to the girlfriend angle, have him out late with her, showing why he later feels the need to separate before she starts messing up his focus and drive to be the best. But none of that happened. Again, it just seems like he snoozed through his alarm for no apparent reason on the biggest day of his young life. It was an absurdly contrived plot device.
And even worse, is was a plot device that meant NOTHING. He wasn't even actually late.
quote:
I remember it happening once and it wasn't his music, it was the dick first chair that was trying to belittle him. Also either Fletcher took it or the janitor thought it was trash and picked it up
Isn't once enough? And it still shows his complete lack of respect for the sheet music whether it was his or the first chair. A prodigy at that level would absolutely show more respect for his sheets.
And I completely agree that Simmons took it. But the way it was presented was wholly unbelievable. He is standing in a completely deserted hallway without another person in sight, turns around for less than 15 seconds to get his soda and then turns around and it's just gone like a fart in the wind. Completely absurd/contrived.
They could have at least had a few people milling about, walking by, but it is a completely deserted hallway because, I assume, the filmmaker knows we would never believe that he would be stupid enough to leave his sheets unattended with other people around. So I guess we're to assume that Simmons is a ninja/Batman wannabe that dropped in from the ceiling to swipe the sheets to allow Teller to become first chair without letting on that that's what he really wanted all along.
And again, his reaction afterwards in completely out of pitch. He freaks out for a minute, then acts completely nonchalant when the first chair freaks out, saying "Relax we'll just grab an extra"
It actually would have been better if we were led to wonder if Teller actually tossed the pages himself to sabotage first chair, but we see him lose them in a split second in a completely abandoned hallway. Weak.
quote:
Well it seemed like everybody else had a car or carpooled and highlighted the isolation of Andrew that he used public transportation by himself.
It didn't "seem" that way. We can assume, but there was NOTHING to indicate how anyone else got there, despite it being almost certain that a competitive squad like that would have all traveled to an out of town competition like that together on a charter/school bus. Yet another contrived plot device.
And I get the isolation aspect, but my problem was more with the contrived nature of the flat tire, rather than him taking a bus by himself. I mean, they could have just had a delay at the station before, or a slow driver. I'm guessing buses don't always run exactly on time. The "oh no it's a flat tire" was just another lame and lazy plot device to show our frazzled protagonist sprinting against the clock.
quote:
He was trying to haul arse to make the concert in time
Like I already said, I could see him forgetting his sticks in a rush in that situation, but that is after a laundry list of contrivances throughout the film that makes it feel like "oh another catastrophe" instead of a genuine oversight. It would have been more powerful if this was the first slip up that our insanely talented protagonist had made when he was so close to his big moment. But as is it's just another melodramatic scene to add drama and suspense while Teller sprints through a scene instead of showing any real character development.
quote:
That'll happen when you blow through a Stop sign while talking on a cell phone
Again, I understand getting in an accident because he was rushed. But getting plowed into by a semi that appeared to be going at a very high speed was just melodramatic nonsense, especially when he appeared to be in a parking lot seeing as how he gets up and jogs about 20 feet to the door of the auditorium right after crawling out of his mangled vehicle with apparently only a few scratches.
Couldn't he have just rear ended someone? Wouldn't that have caused enough of a delay? Couldn't another car have smashed into his trunk or back end as he went through the intersection? Literally a shot from the passenger seat of a big rig slamming into his driver's side window at a high speed was again just a scene trying get shock value. Completely unbelievable as presented.
quote:
He seemed obviously concussed to me and his hand was injured badly enough for him to not hold the stick
He may have been concussed, I'd hope so given the accident presented to us by the director, but it seemed to me that he dropped the stick because he was drenched in fricking blood (nothing bleeds like the scalp right), not due to any real injury to his hand. And the following scenes never show him with any type of cast or even a wrapping on his hand or head, which reinforce that he suffered minor scrapes from his T-Bone by an 18 wheeler.
This post was edited on 3/24/15 at 6:51 am
Posted on 3/24/15 at 6:25 am to Cockopotamus
quote:
He asked her out without knowing her name or giving her his and got a yes. I'd think even the OT ballers would acknowledge thats quite an accomplishment
After who knows how many times he's gone to that theater and never talked to her. Even the scene that he does finally talk to her the OT would consider beta as frick. She even makes fun of him by trolling him because he appears so nervous. Which is fine, that scene is completely believable and the tone I'd expect him to have for most of the movie, you're the one trying to paint him as some sort of OT baller. But it's the juxtaposition of that wallflower versus the later balls out badass going on verbal tirades that doesn't feel genuine imo.
quote:
And the reason he is a wall flower is because he is an obsessive narcissist that only cares about getting Fletcher's attention and becoming a drumming legend. We don't see him lamenting his isolation because he doesn't care and he even breaks up with his girlfriend because he knows he cares about drumming and himself more than her and their relationship.
I get that that is what they were trying to show. I just think they didn't even come close to pulling it off. Teller doesn't have the chops, and I actually like him as an actor. But he always plays the wise cracking cool guy (Spectacular Now, Divergent, 21 and Up), and I really think he didn't have the humility to play this role the way a guy like Eisenberg played Zuckerberg in The Social Network (the best movie of the past decade imo) or even Cumberbatch played Turing this year in Imitation Game, which is the kind of misunderstood savant they were actually trying to make this character imo.
They simply didn't pull it off, either in Teller's performance, or the director's presentation of the story.
quote:
Because he is a narcissist and was upset that they were getting attention for their accomplishments while he wasn't
Why do you think its the first time hes done so? I got the "here we go again" vibe from the rest of the family.
I got the exact opposite. Especially from his father, who looked completely shocked and sat there slack jawed the entire scene.
I get that his family clearly doesn't appreciate his level of skill, and puts more stock in the athletic accomplishments of a much less talented cousin, but it just really didn't seem like this was a confrontation they have had before to me.
And his lack of prior outburst is highlighted by his dad's complete nonchalant reaction when he tells him early on that maybe "this isn't your thing", yet another unbelievable scene that shows how muddled the storyline was. Is his dad his closest confidant and supporter as we see at the end, or is his dad just another one of his aloof family members that doesn't understand his level of skill and the depth of his drive to be the best?
quote:
It wasn't a random drummer, it was the drummer that he was behind before Fletcher called him up. Andrew sees that Fletcher isn't really interested in the "mick frick" but is just using him to aggravate and get under Andrew's skin. Andrew and the "mick frick" obviously didn't have a good relationship when Andrew was his second chair.
I never said he was a random drummer. I know exactly who he was, and completely disagree that they "obviously didn't have a good relationship when Andrew was his second chair." On the contrary, he seemed to be the only guy who was nice to Andrew at all and even tells him not to worry about the other guys in the class.
Andrew even seems like he's supposed to somewhat idolize "the mick frick", when we see him watching him as he's making out with some girl before class, only reinforcing the wallflower mentality after we see that he's too nervous to talk to the girl at the theater the first time we see him there (again disproving your OT baller assertion).
quote:
Verbal and emotional outburst seem to be something Andrew does regularly. Again, I'm not sure why you thought it was the first time he'd lashed out at his cousins.
Nah, I think we're supposed to see his beginning to stand up for himself as him gaining confidence as he grows as a drummer, but I just don't think it was done in a very convincing way. And again, his dad's shocked reaction at his dinner table outburst is really the only thing we have to go on about his prior demeanor around his family.
quote:
His outbursts are intentionally put into the story to further highlight that Fletcher and Andrew are extremely similar. They are both obsessive narcissists prone to verbal tirades. Sorry it went over your head.
Again, I disagree. I took it as he's a complete introvert, scared to talk to the girl, sheepishly watches the cool first chair making out, that supposedly begins to gain confidence and taking on traits of his "mentor" as he rises in the competition squad and perfects his skill.
But his 0 to 60 wallflower to DAUNTLESS GO frick YOURSELF outrage just didn't seem at all genuine or natural in it's progression to me. It seemed more like the actor forcing the character to go in a direction he wanted it to rather than letting the story take it there in a believable way.
I can assure you nothing about this movie or character "went over my head". Sorry your jimmies are so rustled by me not being a fanboy of your favorite movie.
quote:
1. It didn't fly in today's world. He got fired.
2. The lady clearly says that no one had come forward about Fletcher's abuse. Why would the school fire him if no one would testify about his abuse?
He got fired in 2015.
Shenanigans like that wouldn't have flown in an academic setting anytime after the 90s probably, but certainly not since the advent of social media and the 24/7 news cycle that started a decade ago.
And it isn't just about someone "testifying". All it would take would be a parent or two at any point over the DECADES of this guy doing stuff like this to have any academic institution put serious restraints on an out of control teacher like that.
I mean, he THROWS A CYMBAL DIRECTLY AT TELLER"S FACE. Not in his general direction, not over his head or at his feet, AT HIS FACE.
Have you ever held a cymbal? If Teller doesn't have cat like reflexes Simmons would have literally split his head in half T1000 style
We've had several musicians weigh in on the movie based on their experiences. I'd be willing to bet not one of them have ever seen anything remotely similar to that happening at any point in their careers.
This isn't a football coach firing a ball at a kid, as Simmons seemed to base his performance on so many of the dickhead coaches/drill sgts we've seen on screen, but throwing a metal projectile at the face of a completely unsuspecting student from about 10 feet away with zero warning. Yet another completely contrived and silly plot device.
quote:
The reason you think Whiplash is "very overrated" is your fault, not the movie's (which is great)
My fault??
Again, sorry you're so hurt by the fact that I didn't like a movie.
I think this is a movie purely driven by a good scenery chewing performance by Simmons that will be largely forgotten in a year, other than when we see one of the We Are Farmer's commercials when we'll all say "Hey look it's the guy that won the Oscar for calling KD Lang's son a pussy!! That movie was awesome!"
But, to each their own
This post was edited on 3/24/15 at 6:33 am
Posted on 3/24/15 at 7:05 am to Tiger Voodoo
I agree with Freaux
This is very nitpicky.
a couple examples
See college fraternities.
This example takes the cake for me:
If you set your bookbag down at a vending machine to grab your selecton, does it mean that you don't give a shite about education?
Come on, man. . .
This is very nitpicky.
a couple examples
quote:He is not confident in social interactions. Very common for prodigy's.
After who knows how many times he's gone to that theater and never talked to her.
quote:Naw. He has just had enough of their shite. He has a significant accomplishment that gets brushed off several times. But they gush over some athletic endeavor.
I think we're supposed to see his beginning to stand up for himself as him gaining confidence as he grows as a drummer,
quote:You would be amazed at what a teacher can get away with when they are bringing significant money and acclaim to a school. It only takes one student to bring him down but students will eat a ton of shite if they think it will provide them a benefit of some sort.
Shenanigans like that wouldn't have flown in an academic setting anytime after the 90s probably, but certainly not since the advent of social media and the 24/7 news cycle that started a decade ago.
See college fraternities.
This example takes the cake for me:
quote:Are you serious? He set it down next to the vending machine for just a couple of seconds at his first competition.
Isn't once enough? And it still shows his complete lack of respect for the sheet music whether it was his or the first chair. A prodigy at that level would absolutely show more respect for his sheets.
If you set your bookbag down at a vending machine to grab your selecton, does it mean that you don't give a shite about education?
Come on, man. . .
This post was edited on 3/24/15 at 7:13 am
Posted on 3/24/15 at 7:05 am to Tiger Voodoo
It's a fricking movie. Move on...nothing else to see here.
Posted on 3/24/15 at 7:10 am to Tiger Voodoo
you're reaching so hard dude
Posted on 3/24/15 at 7:49 am to Pilot Tiger
Yeah... I don't know if he's just way too bought into this contrarian thing but the amount of effort he's putting in to bashing a movie is kind of weird.
Posted on 3/24/15 at 7:50 am to Roaad
quote:
He is not confident in social interactions. Very common for prodigy's.
I completely agree. That's why I said that scene makes complete sense, it's actually one of the only scenes that I feel is really honest about the character. But it's the complete 180 he goes to with everyone else immediately just flipping out and telling everyone to go frick themselves at the drop of a hat that makes it completely unbelievable from this character.
Like I said, even in Imitation Game, Cumberbatch was the same awkward guy whether he's awkwardly talking to the girl, or telling the cool scientist to bow down cause he's not nearly as smart as him. The same for Eisenberg in Social Network. They're not Urkel one scene and Fonzi the next.
quote:
You would be amazed at what a teacher can get away with when they are bringing significant money and acclaim to a school. It only takes one student to bring him down but students will eat a ton of shite if they think it will provide them a benefit of some sort.
I get that for sure. But again, we're talking about a guy that already drove one kid, that we know about, to killing himself. No school would just let the guy continue to have free rein even if they dodged a bullet with one family. They would make sure this wouldn't happen again because the next family might not and then they have even greater liability because it already happened once and they didn't do anything to stop him from doing it again.
You would be amazed at what even the slightest threat of litigation will do to a school. Especially a school like Julliard, which this is supposed to be, where one teacher will never make or break the reputation of the place.
quote:
Are you serious? He set it down next to the vending machine for just a couple of seconds at his first competition.
Well, I disagree, I still think a prodigy like that would have great deference for his sheets in the moments before competition. Again, maybe the musicians can chime in here?
But even so, your point makes my ultimate point about how absurd that scene was. I said he turned around for about 10 seconds, you say it's "just a couple of seconds". Yet in that blink of an eye his sheets simply vanish even though he's completely alone in a long deserted hallway with no one in sight. Again, completely contrived nonsense, unless Simmons is Mission Impossible-ing from the ceiling to snatch the pages
Posted on 3/24/15 at 7:58 am to Pilot Tiger
quote:
you're reaching so hard dude
I'm really not. These are pretty evident plot holes and contrived situations that made the story one that simply wasn't very convincing imo.
quote:
Yeah... I don't know if he's just way too bought into this contrarian thing but the amount of effort he's putting in to bashing a movie is kind of weird.
I'm very rarely contrarian on this board. I can respect anyone that does or doesn't like a movie.
I made a pretty straightforward OP saying why I didn't get the hype, but then someone posted a line by line criticism of everything I said.
Why didn't you call him weird for the amount of effort he put into disagreeing with my OP?
I simply responded and answered to his post, yet I'm the one you try to call out by acting cool because you disagree with me. And it's kind of funny coming from a guy with 110,000 more posts than me even though you joined half a year after me to call the amount of effort in my posting "weird"
Again, sorry I rustled the jimmies of the fanboys of the board's favorite trendy movie
This post was edited on 3/24/15 at 8:09 am
Posted on 3/24/15 at 8:00 am to Tiger Voodoo
I loved it, but I wish they had skipped over the scene with him and his family and dug a little deeper into his relationship with Nicole.
Posted on 3/24/15 at 8:02 am to Tiger Voodoo
Whiplash is overrated on this board, but it is much, much better than what you are giving it credit for.
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