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Started By
Message
Johnny Jones is not like Dale Brown
Posted on 3/20/15 at 12:02 pm
Posted on 3/20/15 at 12:02 pm
So many times, people make the remark that Jones is Dale Brown 2.0, that he can bring players in but not win with them. This is not the case, and never was an issue with Brown.
People look back at the CJ/Shaq team and use this criticism, but the problem was internal conflicts. I knew members on that team, and we heard a lot of crap. They fought a lot, Wayne Sims gave CJ a black eye. Mo Williamson said he could average 30 pts a game too if he shot the ball 30 times. There was a big rift between the CJ run-and-gun group, and the Shaq/Stanley power down low group (fwiw, I don't think Shaq was an instigator).
Anyway- Brown would have done big things with this team, because he excelled in one thing Jones hasn't yet- bench presence. Last night, we saw the entire team choke up. Daddy Dale would have pulled Mickey, Quarterman and Hornsby out at various points, and you would have seen them on the bench beside the coach for a minute or so. Getting calm, composed, refocused etc.
Brown would get beat with some X and O stuff, but that didn't beat Jones last night. Jones lost because he lost Hornsby for the entire game, Mickey got overwhelmed late, and Quarterman started panicking when he saw his teammates beginning to freeze up. Somehow, Jones needs to become the guy who sees and corrects that.
Now, I will say this encouraged me- the shot of Gray being active on the bench and pumping the guys on the court was nice. I was worried that he might be a guy that might pout when he's out.
People look back at the CJ/Shaq team and use this criticism, but the problem was internal conflicts. I knew members on that team, and we heard a lot of crap. They fought a lot, Wayne Sims gave CJ a black eye. Mo Williamson said he could average 30 pts a game too if he shot the ball 30 times. There was a big rift between the CJ run-and-gun group, and the Shaq/Stanley power down low group (fwiw, I don't think Shaq was an instigator).
Anyway- Brown would have done big things with this team, because he excelled in one thing Jones hasn't yet- bench presence. Last night, we saw the entire team choke up. Daddy Dale would have pulled Mickey, Quarterman and Hornsby out at various points, and you would have seen them on the bench beside the coach for a minute or so. Getting calm, composed, refocused etc.
Brown would get beat with some X and O stuff, but that didn't beat Jones last night. Jones lost because he lost Hornsby for the entire game, Mickey got overwhelmed late, and Quarterman started panicking when he saw his teammates beginning to freeze up. Somehow, Jones needs to become the guy who sees and corrects that.
Now, I will say this encouraged me- the shot of Gray being active on the bench and pumping the guys on the court was nice. I was worried that he might be a guy that might pout when he's out.
3
Posted on 3/20/15 at 12:05 pm to Scoob
Dude he's 50 he's not going to get better.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 12:19 pm to Tiger79
To argue Dale Brown is a much better bench coach than Jones is pretty big condemnation.
At least Dale would call in a Tex Winter or someone like him to assist.
On the other hand, good athletes, poorly coached, beats Trent.
At least Dale would call in a Tex Winter or someone like him to assist.
On the other hand, good athletes, poorly coached, beats Trent.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 12:21 pm to Scoob
I agree with your assessment of the differences between JJ and DB. It is unlikely that at this point in his coaching career he improves very much at his in game management. It is possible though that he recruits some natural leaders and they act as an on the court coach. May have one in this group that just isn't ready to take over that role yet.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 12:36 pm to shiftworker
quote:I get the feeling Tim Quarterman will own next year's team, and he might end up as POY in the conference. People who love stats will yell for Simmons to win it, but I think TQ will be the guy controlling the game.
I agree with your assessment of the differences between JJ and DB. It is unlikely that at this point in his coaching career he improves very much at his in game management. It is possible though that he recruits some natural leaders and they act as an on the court coach. May have one in this group that just isn't ready to take over that role yet
If LSU is very good, my guess is that Simmons will be a scoring stud, Hornsby will be a sniper, and Quarterman will average somewhere near a triple-double (maybe 14-7-7) and be on the all-defensive team.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 12:38 pm to Scoob
I could definitely see that, he's shown remarkable improvement this year, and we'll definitely need him moving forward, hope he and/or Victor can step up into a leadership type role for this team
Posted on 3/20/15 at 12:41 pm to nitwit
quote:
At least Dale would call in a Tex Winter or someone like him to assist.
Are you saying Johnny should bring in a former Nba coach to be his assistant?
Posted on 3/20/15 at 12:49 pm to T
Well, even though I've called out Coach Jones on the late collapse for his part in it, overall he has brought the program back from its nadir, a lot of it through great recruiting.
There are 3 things a college coach needs to win the FF. He needs to recruit, prepare the team through great practices (player leadership), and be a really, really good game coach (bench leadership).
I guess I'm just not sold that with Coach Jones, no matter how much talent, we really have no shot at a NC. You have to win 6 games for a title. At some point, you are going to have a close game. And that will probably be our Achilles Heel. We will be a 4-6 loss team maybe every year, but that title......
There are 3 things a college coach needs to win the FF. He needs to recruit, prepare the team through great practices (player leadership), and be a really, really good game coach (bench leadership).
I guess I'm just not sold that with Coach Jones, no matter how much talent, we really have no shot at a NC. You have to win 6 games for a title. At some point, you are going to have a close game. And that will probably be our Achilles Heel. We will be a 4-6 loss team maybe every year, but that title......
Posted on 3/20/15 at 1:00 pm to Scoob
quote:
quote: I agree with your assessment of the differences between JJ and DB. It is unlikely that at this point in his coaching career he improves very much at his in game management. It is possible though that he recruits some natural leaders and they act as an on the court coach. May have one in this group that just isn't ready to take over that role yet I get the feeling Tim Quarterman will own next year's team, and he might end up as POY in the conference. People who love stats will yell for Simmons to win it, but I think TQ will be the guy controlling the game. If LSU is very good, my guess is that Simmons will be a scoring stud, Hornsby will be a sniper, and Quarterman will average somewhere near a triple-double (maybe 14-7-7) and be on the all-defensive team.
TQ can be a fantastic player (at times). And he has shown tremendous growth since last year, but he is very capable of disappearing for long stretches of time (see the games between his triple double and last night) or at the most criticle times (ft's last night in the second half, 0-3 against Auburn after being fouled on a 3 pt shot). My point is his consistency needs to vastly prove to be that leader this team needs.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 1:03 pm to T
No, T that's not what I am saying and will not permit you to misstate me.
I am saying that Jones should consider someone of Tex Winter's talent and experience. AND use that coaching talent.
What role did our NBA asst. play in last nite's game?
I am saying that Jones should consider someone of Tex Winter's talent and experience. AND use that coaching talent.
What role did our NBA asst. play in last nite's game?
Posted on 3/20/15 at 1:07 pm to MetTiger
I think we were 6-6 in close games this season. And I think we have a realtivley young team. IMO this number should improve next year with experience and confidence
Posted on 3/20/15 at 1:12 pm to Scoob
Ok then explain the other 5 times this happened this year.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 1:16 pm to The Mick
OP is on point. JJ has not proven he is in DB's class yet.
Right now he is in the class above TJ
Right now he is in the class above TJ
Posted on 3/20/15 at 1:21 pm to MetTiger
quote:Ok, we have to be somewhat realistic here. UCLA had a tremendous run under Wooden, but otherwise, you look at who wins titles and you see.. what? Kentucky has 8, Indiana and North Carolina have 5 apiece. UConn and Duke have 4. Louisville and Kansas each have 3. These are storied programs, elites.
I guess I'm just not sold that with Coach Jones, no matter how much talent, we really have no shot at a NC. You have to win 6 games for a title. At some point, you are going to have a close game. And that will probably be our Achilles Heel. We will be a 4-6 loss team maybe every year, but that title......
There are some other programs you might think are "elite" and have great history... do you see them listed above? Nope. Remember UNLV under Tark the shark? Arkansas under Nolan Richardson and their 40 minutes of hell? Georgetown and Hoya Paranoia? Houston and Phi Slamma Jamma? Florida with Donovan, Syracuse under Boeheim? Michigan St?
These are all programs that have excelled at points, but have at most won 2, some have only 1 or none at all... in their entire history.
If we can approach that level, we will have upgraded our status by a huge margin.
In college basketball, you don't build for national championships, you try to make Final Four teams. If you get there enough, you have your shots.
Posted on 3/20/15 at 1:33 pm to shiftworker
quote:What he needs to improve on (and I think he will), is asserting his leadership and control. He doesn't necessarily have to score another 10 pts late in last night's game, he needs to take command of the team in the last couple minutes, and force the team to play his game. He can control where the ball goes, and if Mickey is freaked out mentally, direct him out high and move Martin down low. Or force Mickey's man to switch to him, and give his big man an assist for a dunk.
TQ can be a fantastic player (at times). And he has shown tremendous growth since last year, but he is very capable of disappearing for long stretches of time (see the games between his triple double and last night) or at the most criticle times (ft's last night in the second half, 0-3 against Auburn after being fouled on a 3 pt shot). My point is his consistency needs to vastly prove to be that leader this team needs.
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