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Myth: It was harder for star NBA players to score in the 80's and 90's than now.

Posted on 3/15/15 at 11:44 am
Posted by PrimeTime Money
Houston, Texas, USA
Member since Nov 2012
27296 posts
Posted on 3/15/15 at 11:44 am
I hear this a lot... even on this board. It's the idea that the game was more "physical" and hand-checking made it very difficult for star players to score. This is an odd myth. The rules today take the star players out of the game in ways that the old rules didn't. The old rules allowed stars to thrive.

First, let's talk about the rule change to allow zone defense. And let's talk about what illegal defense was.

In simple terms, defenders were required to guard either their man, or were allowed to double team the ball AGGRESSIVELY. Meaning, they couldn't play a loose double team where one guy is guarding an area between his man and the ball. He has to be up on the ball.

It was illegal to guard an area or be too far away from your man. If your man was above the 3-point line, you had to be at least above the free throw line.

Also, it was illegal to double-team a player without the ball. Now, since players can double team a player without the ball, it's a way to keep a big man near the basket at all times. Before, teams could have their big man go the the 3-point line, and the defender would have to follow him all the way out to the free-throw line.

Teams could clear out the paint easily. Teams used to run isolation plays where the other 4 guys would literally go stand on the other side of the court, and the defenders would have to follow them. Offenses would often look like this:



Or this:



The rules forced defenders to be put on an island. And if a player doubles him, he has to AGGRESSIVELY double. That means, he has to get up on the ball, leaving a man wide open on the swing pass.

Today, guys can play off their man to help if the guy on the island gets beat.

Today, this is allowed, when this would be an obvious illegal defense before the rule change:



Players today can guard areas to help on star players. Back in the 90's, if you beat your man, it's over. You're going to score. Now, if you beat your man, there are still other defenders there to help right away.

Here are some quotes from Jordan and Kobe to help add some legitimacy to what I'm saying for those of you who don't believe me:


https://articles.chicagotribune.com/2001-04-01/sports/0104010375_1_defense-recommendations-nba



https://articles.latimes.com/2001/dec/27/sports/sp-18225


And here is Kobe addressing hand-checking:


https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2014/03/31/the-fourth-quarter



Who the rules help now are spot-up shooters and role players. Now, scoring comes from cutting, screening, and ball movement to find an open man to score. Of course star players still have a big impact on the floor, but the role player's worth is elevated in today's game. Before, it was a league that catered much more towards individual ability and talent.
This post was edited on 3/15/15 at 11:54 am
Posted by Nonetheless
Luka doncic = goat
Member since Jan 2012
33000 posts
Posted on 3/15/15 at 11:47 am to
Prepare thy anus for downvotes
Posted by Gtothemoney
Da North Shore
Member since Sep 2012
17713 posts
Posted on 3/15/15 at 11:49 am to
And here we go w this thread again.
Posted by RTR America
Memphis, TN
Member since Aug 2012
39600 posts
Posted on 3/15/15 at 11:49 am to
Posted by PrimeTime Money
Houston, Texas, USA
Member since Nov 2012
27296 posts
Posted on 3/15/15 at 11:52 am to
quote:

And here we go w this thread again.

I'm here a lot, and I've never seen this thread. I've seen things mentioned in passing about hand-checking and things like that, but it's rarely challenged.
Posted by RTR America
Memphis, TN
Member since Aug 2012
39600 posts
Posted on 3/15/15 at 11:53 am to
It is just something that gets thrown out there all the time with no real backing other then anecdotal evidence.
Posted by Carson123987
Middle Court at the Rec
Member since Jul 2011
66373 posts
Posted on 3/15/15 at 11:54 am to
U flustered?
Posted by TheSexecutioner
Member since Mar 2011
5247 posts
Posted on 3/15/15 at 11:57 am to
Peej is about to come in with a balanced analysis of the level of play that proves the old era was better in every way, if only slightly in some areas.
Posted by Tigersfan
Member since Feb 2006
2634 posts
Posted on 3/15/15 at 12:02 pm to
Tl,dr

James harden by himself proves it's not a myth.
Posted by Buckeye06
Member since Dec 2007
23102 posts
Posted on 3/15/15 at 12:04 pm to
There are more quotes saying MJ would average 40+ in today's NBA based on the hand checking rule.

Phil Jackson, Larry Brown among other well respected coaches have made these comments
Posted by RTR America
Memphis, TN
Member since Aug 2012
39600 posts
Posted on 3/15/15 at 12:05 pm to
quote:

Tl,dr

James harden by himself proves it's not a myth.


wut
Posted by PrimeTime Money
Houston, Texas, USA
Member since Nov 2012
27296 posts
Posted on 3/15/15 at 12:06 pm to
quote:

James harden by himself proves it's not a myth.

James Harden scores most of his points by shooting 3's, getting lay-ups on fast breaks, free throws, pick and roll, and some isolation scoring. (Isolation as we know it today).

He's not breaking his man down one on one constantly like Jordan.
Posted by RonBurgundy
Whale's Vagina(San Diego)
Member since Oct 2005
13302 posts
Posted on 3/15/15 at 12:07 pm to
quote:

“It’s more of a finesse game. It’s more small ball. Which, personally, I don’t really care much for,” Bryant said. Like so many from the old-school – even at 35, Bryant qualifies – he is befuddled at the soft stuff now that passes for physical play. “Makes me nauseous,” he said. “You can’t touch a guy….

“Nowadays, anybody can get out there and get to the basket – you can’t touch ‘em,” he said. “Back then, if you have guys putting their hands on you, you have to have the skills to be able to go both ways, change directions, post up and have that mid-range game, because you didn’t want to go all the way to the basket because you’d get knocked [down].”
-Kobe Bryant

/thread
Posted by PrimeTime Money
Houston, Texas, USA
Member since Nov 2012
27296 posts
Posted on 3/15/15 at 12:08 pm to
quote:

There are more quotes saying MJ would average 40+ in today's NBA based on the hand checking rule.

Phil Jackson, Larry Brown among other well respected coaches have made these comments
Star players hate the zone defense now.

Those guys were saying if hand-checking wasn't allowed in their day, they would have put up insane numbers.

It did have an impact, but the strict man-to-man defense had a much greater impact than hand-checking rules.
Posted by RTR America
Memphis, TN
Member since Aug 2012
39600 posts
Posted on 3/15/15 at 12:09 pm to
quote:

James Harden scores most of his points by shooting 3's, getting lay-ups on fast breaks, free throws, pick and roll, and some isolation scoring. (Isolation as we know it today).


Strauss tweeted something the other day along the lines of Harden shooting like 35+% on step back 3's, just unfair
Posted by SwaggerCopter
H TINE HOL IT DINE
Member since Dec 2012
27226 posts
Posted on 3/15/15 at 12:09 pm to
Kobe Bryant also said if he could start a team with any player, he would choose James Harden. Just thought I would throw that our there since his word is considered gold to so many.
Posted by brgfather129
Los Angeles, CA
Member since Jul 2009
17092 posts
Posted on 3/15/15 at 12:10 pm to
quote:

Star players hate the zone defense now.


Teams rarely play a zone defense now.
Posted by S
RIP Wayde
Member since Jan 2007
155345 posts
Posted on 3/15/15 at 12:10 pm to
The DNA of the players was a little different in that era.

Good points though
Posted by PrimeTime Money
Houston, Texas, USA
Member since Nov 2012
27296 posts
Posted on 3/15/15 at 12:11 pm to
Kobe is talking about star players. He's saying back then, star players were allowed to be dominant and take advantage of their superior skill.

Now, even role players can score points. And that's true.

However, teams can prevent the star players from completely taking over games much more than in the past.

The scoring is spread more evenly because it's more of a team game today as opposed to the star-driven game of the past.
Posted by Buckeye06
Member since Dec 2007
23102 posts
Posted on 3/15/15 at 12:12 pm to
quote:

Star players hate the zone defense now.

Those guys were saying if hand-checking wasn't allowed in their day, they would have put up insane numbers.

It did have an impact, but the strict man-to-man defense had a much greater impact than hand-checking rules.


Those quotes were made after both rules were put into place. You are just picking and choosing what you want for your argument.

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