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Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:16 am to terd ferguson
quote:
only 'merica could do that
Only a winter war in Asia could do that
Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:16 am to SpqrTiger
quote:
It was a different time and place, and a different set of conditions that gave rise to it.
Germany was still hurting from WWI. The NSDAP brought prosperity back to the Fatherland and the average citizen loved Hitler for that.
Similar events have occurred throughout history... take the Red Scare/McCarthyism/Anti-Communism of the 1950s. You convince an entire population that they are under a threat from a common enemy and anything could happen.
Germany was in a really bad place financially after the First War. Hitler swept in and made life better for Germans and convinced them that the Jews were to blame for their hardships.
Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:17 am to terd ferguson
quote:
You mean the same countries that couldn't prevent Germany from blitzkrieging all over their asses?
Even in the countries that were overrun by the Germans, there were plenty of people more than willing to help facilitate the Holocaust. Countries like Denmark, Norway, Holland, Belgium, and even France provided thousands of volunteers that formed some of the most vicious SS formations.
5th SS Panzer Div
6th SS Mountain Division Nord
23rd SS Volunteer Panzer Grenadier Division Nederland
28th SS Volunteer Grenadier Division Wallonien
11th SS Volunteer Panzergrenadier Division Nordland
And that's just to name a few. There were tens of thousands of non-Germans who signed up to fight for the Germans in the SS, most of them coming from countries that the Germans had already conquered.
Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:19 am to terd ferguson
That and it happened like most horrible state-sponsored things happen...incrementally. It started off as one thing, and gradually evolved into what it became.
This post was edited on 1/27/15 at 9:21 am
Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:19 am to terd ferguson
quote:
Germany was still hurting from WWI. The NSDAP brought prosperity back to the Fatherland and the average citizen loved Hitler for that.
Similar events have occurred throughout history... take the Red Scare/McCarthyism/Anti-Communism of the 1950s. You convince an entire population that they are under a threat from a common enemy and anything could happen.
Germany was in a really bad place financially after the First War. Hitler swept in and made life better for Germans and convinced them that the Jews were to blame for their hardships.
Very good point. There had been centuries of anti-Jewish sentiment in Europe as a whole. Germany was no different from that standpoint than even places like France. What was the straw that broke the camel's back though was the desperate situation in Germany following their defeat in WWI and the total social collapse that followed.
Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:26 am to USMCTiger03
quote:
That and it happened like most horrible state-sponsored things happen...incrementally. It started off as one thing, and gradually evolved into what it became.
It started off with getting the German people to be proud of their heritage again. After WWI morale was low... the mighty Germans had been beaten. Hitler brought about an overwhelming sense of German nationalism.
By convincing them that they were superior, it probably made it that much easier for them to go along with the destruction of those deemed inferior.
The Nazi regime was all about expanding the Aryan population. Birth rates were on the decline... one of the programs they put in place was to reward families that had more children. There were awards and monetary allowances based on how many German babies were made.
Since we're working so hard to make Germany stronger by making more Germans... what if we got rid of some of the non-Germans along the way? That would help our numbers...
Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:30 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
There had been centuries of anti-Jewish sentiment in Europe as a whole.
And the Nazi regime was able to attach Judaism to the Bolshevik/Communist takeover of Russia and the spread of Communism.
Everybody hates Commies... so let's blame that on the Jews as well.
Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:37 am to terd ferguson
quote:
That and it happened like most horrible state-sponsored things happen...incrementally. It started off as one thing, and gradually evolved into what it became.
quote:
It started off with getting the German people to be proud of their heritage again. After WWI morale was low... the mighty Germans had been beaten. Hitler brought about an overwhelming sense of German nationalism.
Good point. One of the first steps that led to the Holocaust was actually to kill Germans. The first to die were actually German babies that were deemed "better off dead", this was expanded to the physically or mentally handicapped and the elderly. The Germans called it Action T4. They started off killing children like these....
... And even went so far as to launch a propaganda campaign to promote what they were doing...
The poster reads....
quote:
"60,000 Reichsmark is what this person suffering from a hereditary defect costs the People's community during his lifetime. Fellow citizen, that is your money too. Read 'New People', the monthly magazine of the Bureau for Race Politics of the NSDAP."
Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:39 am to Darth_Vader
quote:
And that's just to name a few. There were tens of thousands of non-Germans who signed up to fight for the Germans in the SS, most of them coming from countries that the Germans had already conquered.
I look at those who were away fighting differently than I do those that stayed behind? I don't hold them as accountable
Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:39 am to terd ferguson
quote:
Similar events have occurred throughout history... take the Red Scare/McCarthyism/Anti-Communism of the 1950s. You convince an entire population that they are under a threat from a common enemy and anything could happen.
Wasn't McCarthy actually proven correct decades after the fact? As it turned out, the Red Scare was entirely justified as many of those named as communist sympathizers turned out to be just that, some actually were spies for the Soviet Union. You could have picked a much better analogy, like the KKK.
Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:42 am to Darth_Vader
Posted for the OP.....
YouTube has enough Documentaries on all aspects of
the subject to keep you busy.
Even the Industrial ovens in the crematoriums had the stamp of the company that made them.
At some time that company built those ovens knowing what they were for.
YouTube has enough Documentaries on all aspects of
the subject to keep you busy.
Even the Industrial ovens in the crematoriums had the stamp of the company that made them.
At some time that company built those ovens knowing what they were for.
This post was edited on 1/27/15 at 9:48 am
Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:43 am to USMCTiger03
quote:
That and it happened like most horrible state-sponsored things happen...incrementally. It started off as one thing, and gradually evolved into what it became.
My mind is completely drawing a blank but there were several studies I learned about in Psychology class that attempted to recreate this. And I can't think of a single one.
For whatever reason, Pavolov keeps coming to mind but I think maybe he was a precursor to the latter social theories that developed as a result of what occurred in Germany.
Could someone help me out here?
This post was edited on 1/27/15 at 9:44 am
Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:43 am to kingbob
quote:
Wasn't McCarthy actually proven correct decades after the fact?
You could have picked a much better analogy,
You're missing my point. It's not about whether the action was correct or not... it's about getting an entire population (or at least the majority) involved in believing the action.
Americans believed that Communism was the overwhelming threat of that time. Children were indoctrinated into that way of thinking. The EXACT same thing that happened in 1930's and 40's Germany.
Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:44 am to kingbob
quote:
Wasn't McCarthy actually proven correct decades after the fact? As it turned out, the Red Scare was entirely justified as many of those named as communist sympathizers turned out to be just that, some actually were spies for the Soviet Union.
That is my impression of it as well. Be surprised if the media has ever really focused on that though.
Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:45 am to Darth_Vader
i believe the country was in the thores of collapse before hitler and the nazi party took power. he spoke to sort of a younger generation and promoting pride in the country. it was sorely lacking at the time. It was a perect storm of a down trodden country thirsting for a powerful leader at the time. they got one. he was just a physocotic a-hole.
Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:47 am to tidalmouse
quote:
At some time that company built those ovens knowing what they were for.
Look into IG Farben. They knew exactly what they were doing. After the war IG Farben was broken down into smaller subsidiaries... some of which are big names to this day.
BASF, Bayer, and Agra.
The more you know...
Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:49 am to Geauxld Finger
quote:
It was a perect storm of a down trodden country thirsting for a powerful leader at the time. they got one.
If not him then there would have been another... not necessarily hell bent on the destruction of entire peoples, but at the very least a leader for the next World War.
Many people involved in the First War predicted that it was only a matter of time before there would be another... just the way things were left after WWI.
Posted on 1/27/15 at 9:51 am to terd ferguson
i agree. there is always some fanati waiting in the wing. Same with the constant threat of religoious based terrorism.
Taliban > Al Qaeda > ISIS > ISIL
the last two are basically the same. but more will pop up once you snuff the other out
Taliban > Al Qaeda > ISIS > ISIL
the last two are basically the same. but more will pop up once you snuff the other out
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