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re: SIAP: Deflategate is not about Brady and the receivers. It's about TO's (Link)
Posted on 1/26/15 at 10:16 am to GFunk
Posted on 1/26/15 at 10:16 am to GFunk
quote:Not really. Just a few Patriots fans talking about the issue, Belichick's future, Brady's future, etc.
Can you summarize?
One thing I found funny was one of the guests talking about Patriots fans either already there or getting near to the "oh yeah? frick you, deal with it" zone.
1
Posted on 1/26/15 at 10:17 am to wildtigercat93
That was the second episode I listened to. I found it entertaining.
Posted on 1/26/15 at 10:18 am to boom roasted
quote:
One thing I found funny was one of the guests talking about Patriots fans either already there or getting near to the "oh yeah? frick you, deal with it" zone.
Been there from the start
Posted on 1/26/15 at 10:27 am to GFunk
quote:
Additionally, according to Stats, LLC, the six players who have played extensively for the Patriots and other teams in this span all fumbled far less frequently wearing the New England uniform. Including recovered fumbles, Danny Amendola, BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Danny Woodhead, Wes Welker, Brandon LaFell and LeGarrette Blount have lost the ball eight times in 1,482 touches for the Patriots since 2010, or once every 185.3 times. For their other teams, they fumbled 22 times in 1,701 touches (once every 77.3).
Interesting...
Posted on 1/26/15 at 10:42 am to boom roasted
Well the original analysis is flawed because this only looks at fumbles lost, not total fumbles. They actually fumble once every 73 plays. The Falcons were best in that category with once every 80 plays. Obviously the weather conditions that each team plays in will be different, but fumbles lost is not the best metric to use in this discussion.
This post was edited on 1/26/15 at 10:48 am
Posted on 1/26/15 at 10:44 am to guedeaux
quote:
Additionally, according to Stats, LLC, the six players who have played extensively for the Patriots and other teams in this span all fumbled far less frequently wearing the New England uniform. Including recovered fumbles, Danny Amendola, BenJarvus Green-Ellis, Danny Woodhead, Wes Welker, Brandon LaFell and LeGarrette Blount have lost the ball eight times in 1,482 touches for the Patriots since 2010, or once every 185.3 times. For their other teams, they fumbled 22 times in 1,701 touches (once every 77.3).
Holy shite. I thought this whole story was bs because I couldn't see how it would give Brady a big advantage. Thought it was more of a personal preference type thing. This data is pretty damning though. I doubt it's due to the Patriots coaches being able to teach ball security better than everyone other coaching staff in the league.
Posted on 1/26/15 at 11:24 am to GFunk
Green Bay plays with over-inflated (or at least maxed out at 13.5 psi) balls and is the 6th best in the league according to that graph. If under inflated balls are an advantage, why isn't green bay fumbling more?
Posted on 1/26/15 at 11:54 am to buckeye_vol
According to the guy who ran these analyses, Warren Sharp, the Patriots have ran 6162 plays with only 84 fumbles for a rate of 1 fumble every 73.3 plays. According to Pro Football Reference, unless I miscalculated on my phone (and he must be including playoffs given the total plays), they have fumbled 94 times in that span, for a rate of 1 every 65.6 plays. So unless I have the wrong stats or miscalculated, it would appear that Mr. Sharp's analysis is a misrepresentation, whether accidental or intentional.
This post was edited on 1/26/15 at 11:55 am
Posted on 1/26/15 at 11:57 am to ashy larry
quote:
Green Bay plays with over-inflated (or at least maxed out at 13.5 psi) balls and is the 6th best in the league according to that graph. If under inflated balls are an advantage, why isn't green bay fumbling more?
I would imagine most teams played with maxed out psi. The largest gap, not couting the Pats, from one team to the next is 9.(Atl-3rd to Hou-2nd) The difference in plays from last place Phi and second place Hou is 54 plays per fumble lost. An additional 47 plays from second to first is a little difficult to disregard. Along with all of the players who come in or leave fumbling at a lower rate while a Pat it just looks strange.
Posted on 1/26/15 at 12:12 pm to GFunk
Holy shite that graph is misleading as frick. Why not start it at 0?
Oh, that's right, it looks so much more sinister when you start it at 30 so you have multiple teams looking like they are at zero.
Second of all, Belichick actively gets players that have a history of holding on to the ball, and as anyone who even knows Stevan Ridley exists, will pull players and sit them on the bench if they can't hold on to the ball.
Oh, that's right, it looks so much more sinister when you start it at 30 so you have multiple teams looking like they are at zero.
Second of all, Belichick actively gets players that have a history of holding on to the ball, and as anyone who even knows Stevan Ridley exists, will pull players and sit them on the bench if they can't hold on to the ball.
Posted on 1/26/15 at 12:14 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:Wait, really?
Well the original analysis is flawed because this only looks at fumbles lost, not total fumbles
What's the point of doing all of that data based on fumbles lost and not just fumbles? Seems silly and makes the data pretty much useless.
Posted on 1/26/15 at 12:15 pm to Jcorye1
quote:
Holy shite that graph is misleading as frick. Why not start it at 0?
Because there would be a blank space between 0 and 30.quote:
Oh, that's right, it looks so much more sinister when you start it at 30 so you have multiple teams looking like they are at zero.
Posted on 1/26/15 at 12:15 pm to Mr. Wayne
quote:
I would imagine most teams played with maxed out psi.
And you would most likely be wrong. Jim Nantz and Phil Simms brought up the fact that Aaron Rodgers likes the football inflated to the max or beyond b/c it is uncommon. Quote from Simms who spent 14 years in the NFL as a QB, "Everybody wants it smaller and soft so they can dig their fingers in to it."
LINK
Posted on 1/26/15 at 12:16 pm to ashy larry
quote:Aaron Rodgers is a beast!!!
And you would most likely be wrong. Jim Nantz and Phil Simms brought up the fact that Aaron Rodgers likes the football inflated to the max or beyond b/c it is uncommon. Quote from Simms who spent 14 years in the NFL as a QB, "Everybody wants it smaller and soft so they can dig their fingers in to it."
Posted on 1/26/15 at 12:20 pm to GFunk
From a post in the other thread on this very same "research" and the very same link:
"The Patriots have fumbled once every 67 offensive plays (once per game) since the beginning of the 2007 season, not once every 187 plays.
NFL stats per NFL.com and Pro football Reference websites:
Offensive Plays by New England:
2007 - 1080
2008 - 1126
2009 - 1189
2010 - 1078
2011 - 1002
2012 - 1072
2013 - 1094
2014 - 1053
Total offensive plays 2007 through 2014 seasons = 8694
Fumbles by New England per season:
2007 - 14
2008 - 17
2009 - 17
2010 - 9
2011 - 15
2012 - 14
2013 - 27
2014 - 16
Total fumbles 2007-2014 seasons = 129
8694 offensive plays divided by 129 fumbles = 1 every 67.39 offensive plays
By comparison, another bad-weather, winning team, 2007-2014 Green Bay Packers averaged 5 fumbles more per season than the Patriots did over that 8 year span. FIVE per season. One additional fumble for every 3+ games.
LINK
LINK
LINK /
LINK /
In addition, your PJMEDIA guy repeatedly quoted 2007 as the beginning year for studies numbers, while the Sharp Football website clearly states they only went back to the year 2010. The significance of this 3-year variance is that PJMEDIA attempted to link it with 2007 because both "Spygate" and the perfect 16-0 regular season took place in 2007, creating a scenario that the Patriots started "cheating" on ball pressure immediately after being caught doing the sideline filming. The numbers used by PJMEDIA in your link are for 5 years not 8 years as they claim, and they are incorrect anyway
Some of you can read just about anything on the internet and run with it, when you can just as easily verify the numbers for yourself. But then, it sounds so much more sinister to claim they fumbled once every 187 offensive plays than once every 67 offensive plays."
LINK
"The Patriots have fumbled once every 67 offensive plays (once per game) since the beginning of the 2007 season, not once every 187 plays.
NFL stats per NFL.com and Pro football Reference websites:
Offensive Plays by New England:
2007 - 1080
2008 - 1126
2009 - 1189
2010 - 1078
2011 - 1002
2012 - 1072
2013 - 1094
2014 - 1053
Total offensive plays 2007 through 2014 seasons = 8694
Fumbles by New England per season:
2007 - 14
2008 - 17
2009 - 17
2010 - 9
2011 - 15
2012 - 14
2013 - 27
2014 - 16
Total fumbles 2007-2014 seasons = 129
8694 offensive plays divided by 129 fumbles = 1 every 67.39 offensive plays
By comparison, another bad-weather, winning team, 2007-2014 Green Bay Packers averaged 5 fumbles more per season than the Patriots did over that 8 year span. FIVE per season. One additional fumble for every 3+ games.
LINK
LINK
LINK /
LINK /
In addition, your PJMEDIA guy repeatedly quoted 2007 as the beginning year for studies numbers, while the Sharp Football website clearly states they only went back to the year 2010. The significance of this 3-year variance is that PJMEDIA attempted to link it with 2007 because both "Spygate" and the perfect 16-0 regular season took place in 2007, creating a scenario that the Patriots started "cheating" on ball pressure immediately after being caught doing the sideline filming. The numbers used by PJMEDIA in your link are for 5 years not 8 years as they claim, and they are incorrect anyway
Some of you can read just about anything on the internet and run with it, when you can just as easily verify the numbers for yourself. But then, it sounds so much more sinister to claim they fumbled once every 187 offensive plays than once every 67 offensive plays."
LINK
This post was edited on 1/26/15 at 12:31 pm
Posted on 1/26/15 at 12:21 pm to boom roasted
Laugh all you want, the graph was designed with a point in mind, and that point was to make the Patriots look sinister.
Posted on 1/26/15 at 12:25 pm to GFunk
Wow.
Posted on 1/26/15 at 12:26 pm to TheSexecutioner
quote:Only half serious.
You serious? That isn't an outlier. 1 team has to be last with any distribution.
Looks like the data is pretty misleading, nonetheless.
Posted on 1/26/15 at 12:26 pm to NHTIGER
quote:
From a post in the other thread on this very same "research" and the very same link:
Yeah I was just running the numbers and came to the same conclusion. Except somebodies division is wrong, 8494 divided by 129 is 65.8 plays per fumble. If you run it since 2010, it's 65.4 plays per fumble. I got trolled by somebody that apparently fabricated these numbers from thin air.
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