re: Chavis's departure will end up being a blessing

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I can't remember if it was academics or some sort of criminal activity but I seem to remember something like 8 players, mostly starters, being ineligible for that game. To be honest, don't remember how many on offense...how many on defense. But IF I'm correct, that game is meaningless with a ton of players missing, the obvious discipline problem causing the issue to begin with, etc.

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So, he was fired from Clemson (or went his separate way) because of these players being suspended?

Are you thinking if the UNC game in Atlanta to open 2010??

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I wouldn't swear to this but I'm about 80% sure. What I remember happening BEFORE that game was just about the largest suspension of players at one time in NCAA history.

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This can't be right. I went back and looked at the Post-Spring Depth Chart for Clemson that year. Pretty much all of the players listed as starters recorded some type of statistic in that game.

But I do agree that people are making too much of a deal out of that game. Clemson turned the ball over 4 times in that game. West Virginia scored 3 TDs that covered less than 35 yards. One of which was a 99-yard fumble return for a TD.

Additionally, West Virginia rarely had to drive the length of the field to score a Touchdown thanks to Tavon Austin and some horrible special teams. 3 drives that ended in scores began approximately at the West Virginia 40 yard line.

70 points is 70 points, but the defense got no help from the rest of the team that game. It was a beating through and through.

I wasn't crazy about the Coach 59 hire but he proved to be a good DC here. Likewise, I'm not crazt about the Steele hire but I'll give him a fair chance.

I will mention this concerning Coach 59, although we rarely fielded a functional O during his time here, we had some stellar ST's that helped cover some of his shortcomings. I'll also point out that had we had an O that actually posed a threat this year (as did Clemson's vs WVU in '11), does anyone doubt Auburn would have scored 70 on us in '14?

ETA: WAS: "this yr"; NOW: "'14"

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I'm starting to re-think his "greatness" in light of a Ranters post of the actual numbers:

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2004... Last year of Muschamp D, gave up 256 yds a game
In comes Pellini
2005 266 yds Total D
2006 242
2007 288
2008 Co D Coordinator disaster... 325
2009 in comes Chavis... 327... total yds went up, worse than the Co DC disaster
2010 307
2011 261.. was it Chavis brilliance or a D that had 7 players drafted in first three rounds??
2012 307
2013 talent drained to NFL.. 340 ...worse than the co d.c. experiment
2014 Talent pool level back on the rise...316


I think we got so blinded by the swag of the 2011 team (which numbers-wise still wasn't as good as Muschamp or Pelini's best years) that we let Chavis borrow "greatness" prestige from "great" LSU defenses of the past.

In reality, in 6 years with Chavis, we lost 18 regular season games, and lost 4 of 6 bowl games.

In the previous 4 years (counting one 5 loss season that fricks up the curve), LSU avg'd 2.5 losses per year, and won 4 of 4 bowl games.

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I disagree, given how he stacks up against the competition. Here are our SEC defensive rankings in Chavis's tenure:

Points Allowed Per Game
2014 - 2nd
2013 - 4th
2012 - 3rd
2011 - 2nd
2010 - 2nd
2009 - 3rd
Avg ~3rd

Yards Allowed Per Game
2014 - 1st
2013 - 3rd
2012 - 3rd
2011 - 2nd
2010 - 3rd
2009 - 6th
Avg ~3rd

In 2008, we were 9th in both of these rankings.

There is a slight drop-off from our numbers before Saban's resurrection of Alabama. Here's how those looked:

Points Allowed Per Game
2007 - 2nd
2006 - 1st
2005 - 2nd
2004 - 4th
Avg ~2nd

Yards Allowed Per Game
2007 - 1st
2006 - 1st
2005 - 2nd
2004 - 2nd
Avg ~2nd

It's worth noting that over that time frame, our offense averaged about 3rd in the SEC in offensive points per game, and about 4th in total offense. During Chavis's tenure, we averaged about 8th in the SEC in offensive points per game, and about 9th in the SEC in total offense. In 2008, we were 4th/5th in the SEC in those categories.

If we lost too many games in Chavis's tenure, then I'd posit that it's a function of a signficant decline in offensive production over that time period, moreso than any dramatic drop off in the defense's performance.

I would also argue that there's obviously more to it than the talent that LSU is able to attract, given how poorly our defense performed in our gap season without a strong defensive coordinator, and how poorly our offense has performed with highly rated recruits at the skill and OL positions.

I think it's reasonable to proceed with caution about our new hire given his inconsistent past performance, when he led Clemson from 4th->1st->10th in scoring defense and 3rd->2nd->9th in total defense within the weaker ACC conference. I don't think that's cause to be negative about the hire, but I think it does lead to some doubts about whether there will be a drop in performance/consistency.

It'll be a recruiting improvement once we add an LB and a DE this class. Get Leo Lewis and Prince Tega, and we've already come out ahead on the recruiting side of things.

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All of those nice stats really don't mean a thing.

You are not a "great" defensive coordinator if you average 3 losses per year during your 6 tenure (18 losses) and lose 4 of 6 bowl games.

Considering this past season's putrid offensive output, I'd normally agree with you & let Chavis off the hook.

But 2012 disputes your whole "posit". LSU had a plethora of offensive talent & production with Mett/OBJ/Landry/et al, while Chavis was directly responsible for the 3 losses we had that year.

-Chavis let Gillislee look like Shady McCoy in the first loss to Florida.
-Then he let Bama off the hook on their final drive with the Yeldon ole'.
-Then he let Taj Boyd & DeAndre Hopkins joyride up the field at will in the final drive of the Chik-F-A Bowl game.

So while there was a "significant decline in offensive production" this past year, he was also equally culpable for the losses by no-showing vs the Dak Prescott show, vs the Auburn blowout, and vs the Arky embarrassment. He was directly responsible for letting Kiffin out-coach him in OT with Bama, and allowing the 6 minute game-ending drive vs Notre Dame in yet another bowl loss.

If you want to "disagree" and still call him "great" for all of his nice stats, then you are on your own.

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You're thinking of 2013. LSU was 6th/8th in PPG/YPG offensively in 2013, and 8th/10th in 2012. It was actually somewhat surprising to me when I saw how average our offensive production was relative to other SEC teams in 2013, considering how much legitimate NFL talent we had. The last time I think we were stacked like that offensively was 2006, and we led the SEC that year.

I'm not saying that Chavis was a flawless defensive coordinator, but I do think that fan opinion has swung too far in the other direction due to his leaving in the night for an SEC West rival. Your post quoted defensive YPG statistics out of context in making the argument that Chavis led our defense to a decline, but I think that in a statistical comparison to our SEC competition, we held up pretty well.

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Yards Per Game and Points Per Game are popular stats to use, but they're by definition a product of the number of snaps and number of drives a defense faces per game.

Miles's fundamental approach to football is to shorten games as much as possible, and this is easily seen in "Total" statistics.

Go look at the efficiency statistics I posted on Page 3. They're far more accurate in assessing Chavis's defenses. He fielded an elite defense when he had elite talent 2011-12. Otherwise, they were pretty meh.

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LSU's defense averaged 3rd in the SEC in Yards Per Play and 5th in the SEC in 3rd down % over Chavis's tenure. There's little variance in the Yards Per Play ranking (3,3,2,3,3,5), although 3rd down percentage is all over the place, as you'd expect from his '3rd and Chavis' reputation. I couldn't find SEC Points Per Play rankings for that time frame, I'm all ears if that tells a different story.

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Against Power 5 competition, we were 5th in conference in 2009 in yards per play. Where are you getting your stats?

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Ah, I wasn't selecting for BCS AQ/Power 5 conference stats.