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Message
re: Jury awards fired Catholic school teacher $1.9 million
Posted on 12/23/14 at 4:17 pm to FT
Posted on 12/23/14 at 4:17 pm to FT
quote:
She knew what the school's position on this was. I don't like that they fired her for it, but it's not like she was blindsided by new information when she chose IVF.
Agree with this part.
1
Posted on 12/23/14 at 4:31 pm to TerryDawg03
I'm catholic and I agree with this ruling.
If the school wants to take money from parents who violate Catholics doctrine like using birth control and divorce then they don't have a moral leg to stand on for a woman who has ivf.
You can't get paid by the devil to buy your bible.
If the school wants to take money from parents who violate Catholics doctrine like using birth control and divorce then they don't have a moral leg to stand on for a woman who has ivf.
You can't get paid by the devil to buy your bible.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 4:42 pm to mahdragonz
quote:
then they don't have a moral leg to stand on for a woman who has ivf.
A moral leg? Maybe not.
A contract? Apparently.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 4:49 pm to mahdragonz
quote:
I'm catholic and I agree with this ruling.
If the school wants to take money from parents who violate Catholics doctrine like using birth control and divorce then they don't have a moral leg to stand on for a woman who has ivf.
You can't get paid by the devil to buy your bible.
By this logic, the Catholic Church should accept no tithes from anyone it considers a sinner.
This post was edited on 12/23/14 at 4:50 pm
Posted on 12/23/14 at 5:09 pm to FooManChoo
quote:Not me.
I disagree with the verdict.
The amount may be debatable. Not the verdict IMO.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 5:10 pm to mahdragonz
quote:Interesting take.
If the school wants to take money from parents who violate Catholics doctrine like using birth control and divorce then they don't have a moral leg to stand on for a woman who has ivf.
I agree.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 8:28 pm to NC_Tigah
The court is essentially trying to force the school to commit fraud. A Catholic school is supposed to go beyond the three R's and include a certain set of values. They are taking money from parents under the guise that Catholic values are part of the education their children are receiving.
In this case, the teacher made a premeditated decision to commit an act contrary to Church doctrine, and that's the problem here. If she doesn't want to make life decisions in accordance with Catholic doctrine, she should teach in a secular private school or in a public school, or in a school affiliated with a church that supports IVF.
In this case, the teacher made a premeditated decision to commit an act contrary to Church doctrine, and that's the problem here. If she doesn't want to make life decisions in accordance with Catholic doctrine, she should teach in a secular private school or in a public school, or in a school affiliated with a church that supports IVF.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 8:34 pm to mahdragonz
quote:
If the school wants to take money from parents who violate Catholics doctrine like using birth control and divorce then they don't have a moral leg to stand on for a woman who has ivf.
that isn't the same.
It's one thing for a prostitute to donate money to a Catholic Church. As scripture says even people who are evil know how to give gifts to their children. But when someone represents that Catholic Church as a teach for a catholic school and they actively and visibly do something contrary to Catholic Teaching.
It would be like the president of a national pro life organization getting an abortion. It is legit to fire someone if they act against the visible values you hold.
I'm sure someone will bring up well aren't we all sinners. Well yes but most sins aren't known by others. When the sin you commit creates scandal that is when it gets into fireable offense territory.
for example there may be a Catholic School teacher who is struggling with pronagraphy and watches it on occasion and maybe habitually, but as long as that stays between he and his confessor or some other trusted friend than that isn't a fireable offense. It is different if the students find out or if he talks about his struggle openly to high school students, or even worse uses school property to commit the offense.
Everyone sins, but not every sin creates public scandal.
This post was edited on 12/23/14 at 8:37 pm
Posted on 12/23/14 at 8:37 pm to TerryDawg03
quote:Yeah, that was pretty strained logic.
By this logic, the Catholic Church should accept no tithes from anyone it considers a sinner.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 10:16 pm to catholictigerfan
quote:
When the sin you commit creates scandal that is when it gets into fireable offense territory.
Agreed.
Posted on 12/23/14 at 10:18 pm to udtiger
quote:
enjoy the win, say goodbye to it on appeal.
Beat me to the punch.
Posted on 12/24/14 at 12:09 am to STEVED00
How is it alot of you people are agreeing with the ability of the Church to rule over the private life of an individual with regard to the method of pregancy?
Her lawyer should make the diocese provide evidence that IVF is 'sin', make the Archbishop sit on the stand and confirm in the Bible where the doctrine is written, thou shalt not conceive in a petri dish....
Id love to be in the room later in this kids life when the mother introduces the kid to the priests of the dioces by saying...son, this is the idiot that believes your were conceived by sin.
Her lawyer should make the diocese provide evidence that IVF is 'sin', make the Archbishop sit on the stand and confirm in the Bible where the doctrine is written, thou shalt not conceive in a petri dish....
Id love to be in the room later in this kids life when the mother introduces the kid to the priests of the dioces by saying...son, this is the idiot that believes your were conceived by sin.
Posted on 12/24/14 at 12:25 am to Toddy
I've said it many times but it bears repeating - a business or organization should be able to hire and fire for any reason whatsoever. The government has no business getting involved in HR policy. Free market will handle businesses or organizations doing stupid things. This always gets me fired up.
Posted on 12/24/14 at 12:28 am to Cruiserhog
quote:
How is it alot of you people are agreeing with the ability of the Church to rule over the private life of an individual with regard to the method of pregancy?
because she signed a contract agreeing to the terms.
military personnel sign a contract with the United States government basically giving up any meaningful rights. wanna bitch about that, too?
Posted on 12/24/14 at 12:41 am to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
n this case, the teacher made a premeditated decision to commit an act contrary to Church doctrine, and that's the problem here. If she doesn't want to make life decisions in accordance with Catholic doctrine,
Exactly how is its ethical or even moral that a Church can dictate the do/donts of the private life, the joy of motherhood of a parishioner outside of her work. Why is the frick is it their business at all. Does this ridiculous dogma so-called sin make her smell or look repulsive or make her do her job less effectively?
Posted on 12/24/14 at 12:42 am to Cruiserhog
very salient points, sounds like she shouldn't have gone to work there.
Posted on 12/24/14 at 12:46 am to Tiguar
quote:
because she signed a contract agreeing to the terms.
The diocese stated Herx violated the terms of her contract containing a morals clause promising to uphold Catholic teachings.
oh the irony.
But when she notified school administrators of her third in vitro fertilization cycle in February 2011
so only after a third attempt was she terminated for being 'an immoral sinner', hmmm wonder why those in charge weren't too upset the first two times...
could it be....what religious people do...cherry picken.
This post was edited on 12/24/14 at 12:48 am
Posted on 12/24/14 at 12:47 am to udtiger
Some facts left out (per this dismissal of interlocutory appeal): she was fired after her second round of IVF. Her first round of IVF she informed the principal, was permitted to take time off for, and had her contract renewed after.
LINK
LINK
This post was edited on 12/24/14 at 12:47 am
Posted on 12/24/14 at 6:20 am to Cruiserhog
quote:
Exactly how is its ethical or even moral that a Church can dictate the do/donts of the private life
Most churches have rules about right or wrong.
quote:
Why is the frick is it their business at all
Because she's a representative of the Church. If she doesn't agree with its rules, she shouldn't be in any official capacity with the Church.
quote:
Does this ridiculous dogma
Unfortunately for you, we have freedom of religion in this country. Even for people whose doctrine you don't like.
quote:
make her smell or look repulsive
So you think it's moral to fire someone for being ugly but immoral for a religious institution to fire someone for violating that institutions rules? And you're calling other people ridiculous?
quote:
make her do her job less effectively
It did. Part of her job is to model Church standards. Objectively, she not only failed at that, but went out of her way to defy Church teachings. That is incompatible with what is expected of someone in her position.
Posted on 12/24/14 at 12:28 pm to Bestbank Tiger
quote:
Most churches have rules about right or wrong.
private life, private life, apart from her being at the school repping the Church.
quote:
Because she's a representative of the Church
again her private life separate from 'officially' repping the Church
quote:
Unfortunately for you, we have freedom of religion in this country
how exactly is this relevant other than the Church extending its reach into the private lives of parishioners beyond its walls
quote:
So you think it's moral to fire someone for being ugly but immoral for a religious institution to fire someone for violating that institutions rules? And you're calling other people ridiculous?
you lack reading comprehension. my point was her pregnancy did not affect her performance or make her impossible to work with. the fact that she got pregnant via IVF.....ON THE THIRD TRY WHEN THE HIGHER UPS WERE AWARE OF THE FIRST TWO...apparently made her unfit to work their in some capacity outside the fact that she was quite capable of doing a fine job because some ultra pious priest moved the goalposts.....she was now a 'immoral sinner'.
quote:
t did. Part of her job is to model Church standards. Objectively, she not only failed at that, but went out of her way to defy Church teachings. That is incompatible with what is expected of someone in her position.
Thats odd, she attempted this twice before to no objections and all of sudden poof some religious dogma pops into existence on the third try where she is 'incompatible with what's expected'...hmmm
This post was edited on 12/24/14 at 1:26 pm
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