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re: 70 Years Ago today: US Brig Gen McAuliffe Said to the Germans "NUTS!"
Posted on 12/22/14 at 4:39 pm to Darth_Vader
Posted on 12/22/14 at 4:39 pm to Darth_Vader
quote:
I was looking forward to a good thread discussing the Battle of the Bulge
Darth, based on my own study over the years, IMHO, the German request to surrender was a bluff.
The reason why it was a bluff is because, at the moment the surrender request was submitted, the German forces around Bastogne were too weak to either attack and capture Bastogne or blast Bastogne into rubble with artillery fire.
Once the Germans by-passed Bastogne, they never marshaled sufficient force to overrun the 101st ABN defending the perimeter.
Is this in line with your thinking and conclusions?
3
Posted on 12/22/14 at 4:41 pm to Champagne
It was because they didn't have enough supplies to sustain the resistance and then make an advancement. They had enough guns, tanks and people.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 4:43 pm to Champagne
Obviously. They were getting stopped by infantry who had no supplies. They never had a chance
Posted on 12/22/14 at 5:10 pm to Champagne
I don't know if it was an all out bluff or not, but Wolfhound's link goes into this a bit. The threatened artillery barrage never took place because the guns had been moved with the advancing front and some of the encircling units also moved west. (The Luftwaffe bombed the city that night.)
McAuliffe was sleeping when the "surrender, or else" letter got to Division HQ. He initially misunderstood what he was being told and asked, "The Germans want to surrender?"
McAuliffe was sleeping when the "surrender, or else" letter got to Division HQ. He initially misunderstood what he was being told and asked, "The Germans want to surrender?"
Posted on 12/22/14 at 5:11 pm to OhFace55
quote:
They had enough guns, tanks and people.
I agree that they had insufficient supplies of ammo and fuel to overrun Bastogne.
But, I disagree that they had enough "guns, tanks and people."
You say that the Germans had enough tanks to take Bastogne. The German armor headed West and by-passed Bastogne. The Germans didn't leave a bunch of tanks sitting in defensive positions surrounding Bastogne.
The elements of Panzer Lehr left to mask Bastogne didn't have a bunch of tanks.
Now, if you are talking about whether the Germans had enough men, guns and tanks in the whole Ardennes forest to overrun Bastogne, then, yes, I agree with that.
They masked Bastogne and moved the main body west.
This post was edited on 12/22/14 at 7:11 pm
Posted on 12/22/14 at 5:12 pm to White Roach
quote:
The threatened artillery barrage never took place because the guns had been moved with the advancing front and some of the encircling units also moved west
This supports my contention that it was a bluff. The main body headed West for the Meuse River. A masking force was left behind to contain Bastogne.
The Germans did mount an attack on Bastogne perimeter on Christmas Day, but, this was three days after the Bluff.
The Germans again mounted an attack on Bastogne perimeter on January 3rd, 1945, with some Waffen SS forces that had earlier in the battle fought on the north face of the Bulge.
This post was edited on 12/22/14 at 5:33 pm
Posted on 12/22/14 at 5:16 pm to jimbeam
quote:
They never had a chance
I agree that the Germans never had a chance to advance all the way to Antwerp, which was the objective.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 8:18 pm to Darth_Vader
Darth, dad was a tank commander in the 11th armored under Patton and attached to unit that got encircled in Bastogne in chaos of bulge drive by panzers. Said it was a cold Xmas Eve in that foxhole.
Posted on 12/22/14 at 8:20 pm to CocomoLSU
Came in from Amazon last week 
Posted on 12/22/14 at 11:42 pm to John McClane
LINK
Here's my favorite book on the Battle of the Bulge.
The "Then and Now" series has a full history as well as photographs of the battlefield just after or during the battle juxtaposed with modern photos of the SAME locations.
I was able to use this book to drive around the Ardennes Forest to find many of the locales pictured in the book.
I was also able to walk into the forest just East of Rocherath-Krinkelt, Belgium to find a foxhole line and the remains of a discarded woolen coat from the US 99th Infantry Division. The book helped me to find the exact road that 12 SS Hitlerjugend used to advance on and attack the 99th ID positions. It was the road from Hollerath, Germany.
Here's my favorite book on the Battle of the Bulge.
The "Then and Now" series has a full history as well as photographs of the battlefield just after or during the battle juxtaposed with modern photos of the SAME locations.
I was able to use this book to drive around the Ardennes Forest to find many of the locales pictured in the book.
I was also able to walk into the forest just East of Rocherath-Krinkelt, Belgium to find a foxhole line and the remains of a discarded woolen coat from the US 99th Infantry Division. The book helped me to find the exact road that 12 SS Hitlerjugend used to advance on and attack the 99th ID positions. It was the road from Hollerath, Germany.
This post was edited on 12/23/14 at 11:45 pm
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