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Started By
Message
re: Patrick Robinson - Legit #2 Cornerback moving forward?
Posted on 12/18/14 at 3:30 pm to TigerBait1127
Posted on 12/18/14 at 3:30 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
I was pretty damn impressed with it last year. We lost Greer, Robinson, and Vaccaro and still kept playing well.
You had guys starting in a new system, and as they got more coaching it seems to have not gotten better.
Also key there is the fact that our pass rush was leap years better than anyone could've hoped last year.
quote:
The decline kind of started in 2012 though. We replaced the best guard in the game and lost our LT. Now Evans is just getting old.
I would take him back in a second though
The decline last 6 weeks, which ironically was how long Kromer was not focused on OL coaching and being a HC on top of it. Once Kromer shifted back primarly to OL coach, the OL took off and they played very well. The Saints just dug too big of a hole at that point and the defense was atrocious.
quote:
We've had good LB play in the past with Vilma and Fujita. We haven't invested at that position.
True, but it seems that we struggle with proven guys making simple reads. Hawthorne is a great example. He was a stud up in Seattle, and comes here and takes horrible angles, doesn't use his teammates as help (jumps the wrong lane when pursuing a tackle, and just out of sorts.
Name one drafted LBer that has panned out beyond mediocre under Vitt?
quote:
Once again, turnover and age. Are you not happy with the way Stills has developed? Cooks was progressing very rapidly. Colston is older.
Age clearly has been a factor, but there is much more to it than that. Tons of drops aren't because of age. Perhaps you can blame the lack of separation by the WRs on age with Colston and Moore (last year), but that isn't the only issue with the WRs.
Again, all these things aren't entirely on coaching, but poor development and coaching has hurt this team on both sides of the ball.
3
Posted on 12/18/14 at 3:32 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
Name one drafted LBer that has panned out beyond mediocre under Vitt?
We have been absolutely awful at drafting LB's since the Mora era. It's too bad, as you can usually find capable LBs in the middle rounds, plus they have the easiest transition from college to the NFL outside of RBs.
This post was edited on 12/18/14 at 3:33 pm
Posted on 12/18/14 at 3:34 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
Name one drafted LBer that has panned out beyond mediocre under Vitt?
did u call up wwl other day?
Posted on 12/18/14 at 3:46 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
The safety play has been atrocious for most of the season
We've lost Byrd and Bush there. Vaccaro had to switch into the high safety role and hasn't played well there.
quote:
Furthermore, it's not like Lewis was some mediocre CB they turned into a legit cornerback. He was legit in Pittsburgh before coming to the Saints.
And his game has been elevated here.
quote:
s most of the corner play including from White
Lewis and Robinson have both been pretty good there. Our defense def changed when Lewis was injured though.
quote:
It isn't a coincidence that pro-bowl veterans are magically sucking.
Age matters.
Evans was 3rd overall in PBE last season. I think he's just getting older. Grubbs was top 15 in PBE last year too.
Once we replaced Brown last season, the oline was great. Jahri just isn't physically dominant like he used to be, and it shows against the talented DLs
This post was edited on 12/18/14 at 3:48 pm
Posted on 12/18/14 at 3:53 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
Jahri just isn't physically dominant like he used to be, and it shows against the talented DLs
I think he needs to go, but I'd bet that our entire interior OL would play much better with a good center. Remember how much of a disaster we were with Kreutz, then how much we improved by replacing him with DLP? I was seriously pissed that we didn't keep DLP when he signed for the vet min. Maybe he didn't want to stay here, but he was a potentially great backup to all three interior OL positions. Lelito has looked capable, but in terms of cap hit, he and DLP would have cost us the same amount.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 4:00 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
We've lost Byrd and Bush there. Vaccaro had to switch into the high safety role and hasn't played well there.
The DB play was atrocious before they were lost. It got mildly better ironically after Byrd was out and replaced by Bush.
quote:
And his game has been elevated here.
Happens when you get a player getting into their peak.
quote:
Lewis and Robinson have both been pretty good there. Our defense def changed when Lewis was injured though.
It did, and I think they lucked out in getting him, but lets be realistic, there are some coaching issues at DB. Why else is a safety prospect the #3 or #4 corner back on the team?
quote:
Age matters.
Evans was 3rd overall in PBE last season. I think he's just getting older. Grubbs was top 15 in PBE last year too.
Once we replaced Brown last season, the oline was great. Jahri just isn't physically dominant like he used to be, and it shows against the talented DLs
The OL gelled late, but to say that Grubbs and Evans were great or even very good last year ignores how they played most of the season. It also ignores how our center position last year magically became horrid.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 4:03 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
The DB play was atrocious before they were lost. It got mildly better ironically after Byrd was out and replaced by Bush.
Coaching definitely had to do with that.
quote:
The OL gelled late
Don't forget that we tried a lot of zone blocking early, then went back to more man as the season went on after it was clear that it wasn't working.
This post was edited on 12/18/14 at 4:05 pm
Posted on 12/18/14 at 5:15 pm to Geauxgurt
quote:
The decline last 6 weeks, which ironically was how long Kromer was not focused on OL coaching and being a HC on top of it. Once Kromer shifted back primarly to OL coach, the OL took off and they played very well.
We actually settled down before Kromer switched back over. The 1st 3 games were atrocious.
According to PFF, the 1st 6 games of 2012:
10 sacks, 15 hits, 48 hurries
The last 6 games:
12 sacks, 12 hits, 64 hurries
And we had some terrible games after he came back too. brees was sacked 5x vs SF and pressured 20x.
quote:
Tons of drops aren't because of age.
I also highly doubt that Colston's drops are due to coaching.
quote:
It did, and I think they lucked out in getting him, but lets be realistic, there are some coaching issues at DB. Why else is a safety prospect the #3 or #4 corner back on the team?
He played more corner in college than he did safety.
By that same logic, why did Malcolm Jenkins start his career with the Saints at corner?
This post was edited on 12/18/14 at 5:25 pm
Posted on 12/18/14 at 6:06 pm to TigerBait1127
I think he's a legit #2 Corner for us, but I would like to see the Saints at least draft/sign/trade for one or two more because our depth is horrendous.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 8:15 pm to TigerBait1127
quote:
Legit #2 Cornerback moving forward?
no
Posted on 12/18/14 at 8:28 pm to TigerBait1127
Should be had for cheap in FA.
I think he would make a great #3 and in a pinch due to injury a #2.
I think he would make a great #3 and in a pinch due to injury a #2.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 9:08 pm to THRILLHO
looking at that pic, the thing that stands out most is the pocket that Ryan has on the play.
i don't care what the plan was that game... you've got to win up front to win in this league. That has never changed.
but I don't know if you can count on PRob to be a No.2 corner going forward. It seems like every time that you are ready to buy in on him he suffers another slump.
i don't care what the plan was that game... you've got to win up front to win in this league. That has never changed.
but I don't know if you can count on PRob to be a No.2 corner going forward. It seems like every time that you are ready to buy in on him he suffers another slump.
Posted on 12/18/14 at 9:17 pm to TigerBait1127
Maybe.
But we should absolutely re-sign him.
But we should absolutely re-sign him.
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