re: Just watched The Dark Knight Rises for the first time

TDKR's biggest problem is that:

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[T]hey just tried to cram way too much into one film

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I re-watched it the other day, and it was even worse than I remembered. Still, about a 5/10 as far as movies go, but not even in the same ballpark as the other two in the trilogy. They just tried to cram way too much into one movie.

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Taking the fall for Dent's death and allowing the Dent Act to be passed where Gothamites pretty much got the home grown Gitmo treatment.

Which, now that I think about it, is poor narrative on the parts of the writers. It would have made more sense if they thought either the Joker or the Mob killed Dent and those people.

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If it would've come out that Dent went crazy there would have been anarchy. TDKR turned it into a reason to have a "police state", which I agree is stupid. That was more on the hands of Gordon than anybody, though.

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even the people who hated it said she was good I agree about the other guy.

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Meh, she's not good at the femme fatale thing. When she was playing Catwoman, it left like I was watching Uma Thurman play Poison Ivy again

TDK and BB are good movies. Not great, but very good. I like TDKR but it isn't that good at all.


Also, realistically, as much fighting as Batman did over the 2 years it is plausible to accept that he physically could only do it that long. After the time skip he went to the doctor and he basically said he had the body of a 70 year old man


To do what he did realistically, since that's what we are doing here with counting the years he was Batman, is almost unreal and it's ok to accept that fact that he physically just couldn't do it anymore.

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Looking back, they should've done the Harry Potter/Hunger Games treatment and split the final movie into two parts with the first one ending with Batman getting his back broken. Having Bruce go from cripple to Batman was silly IMO.

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Totally agree. The first one should've ended with a crippled Bruce lying in prison and nothing to stop Bane, sort of like how The Empire Strikes Back ended with Han frozen in carbonite and Luke having to get a new hand. Then, you start the second one several months later with Bruce trying to rehab himself in prison and work his way back to health in order to escape. If they'd have done that, it'd have seemed far less rushed and less disjointed.

And I agree with your point about Nolan wanting to feature the Joker in TDKR. However, I've always hated how TDK ended.

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Bale in Batman Begins is the best portrayal of Bruce and Batman there has ever been...after that the creative team took him(the character) in a terrible direction.

1) Physicality,Rage and Determination all present in the film
2) Clearer motivation-was more about saving Gotham with while the love story-the worst part of the trilogy wasn't a major driving force of the character.
3) The voice was less prevalent in BB and more effective-"swear to me" scene was the best intimidation scene in the trilogy.That scene was a spooky as Batman has ever been on film.
4) He was more intelligent in this film than he was in any other-with Alfred and Fox being the brains in the future.
5) He played the aloof dickhead playboy better in this film-a more accurate portrayal of the "Year One" Bruce than anything Keaton or Kilmer did-who practically screamed Bruce was Batman. Bale's GTFO speech to his guests was money. His quips about buying the hotel were the right kind of smug, his plan to take back his own company was the very definition of The Batman Gambit.


After this film Bruce was a crybaby obsessed with winning over his woman and suddenly very concerned with making Gotham a better place (as Bruce)-like the Dent fundraiser and the ball at his house in TDKR-but at the same time playing the "dopey" owner of Wayne Enterprises (falling asleep in the meeting), pretending to not be aware of the assassination attempt on Reese(even though he's well known to be connected to Dawes and Dent), etc.

The creative team changed the character to fit the story they wanted to tell and fell more in line with Nolan style protagonists(love driven, emotional). They decided that Rachel Dawes death was enough damage to Bruce that he gave up his life quest-which included bringing white collar crime down too, both as Bruce and Batman.

Batman's one, true defining trait- his eternal fire for bringing justice was extinguished for a girl who friend zoned him....

but before all that, he was pretty awesome

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Batman's one, true defining trait- his eternal fire for bringing justice was extinguished for a girl who friend zoned him....

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Let us never forget that they chose Maggie Gyllenhaal as the one who friend-zoned him.

True but some of what I said applied.

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Batman's one, true defining trait- his eternal fire for bringing justice was extinguished for a girl who friend zoned him....

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maybe the most insightful view I have ever read of Batman. Brilliant really.

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Batman's one, true defining trait- his eternal fire for bringing justice was extinguished for a girl who friend zoned him....

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I never took it this way. It seemed to me that he quit because he was no longer needed as the mob had been beaten. He made it pretty clear in TDK that he wanted Dent to take the mantle and give Gotham a hero with a face. He did that by taking the fall for Dent. He was so consumed by his desire to be Batman again but had no reason to do it that he was physically deteriorating. He finally got over that need for revenge by the end of TDKR. Seems like a complete character arc to me.

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I never took it this way. It seemed to me that he quit because he was no longer needed as the mob had been beaten. He made it pretty clear in TDK that he wanted Dent to take the mantle and give Gotham a hero with a face. He did that by taking the fall for Dent. He was so consumed by his desire to be Batman again but had no reason to do it that he was physically deteriorating. He finally got over that need for revenge by the end of TDKR. Seems like a complete character arc to me.

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1a) In addition to avenging his parents death, his whole spiel in BB was giving Gotham a symbol so those would stand up to corruption. Gordon was already a face if need be. The Dent storyline was cooked up to bring importance to the love story

1b)He wanted a life with Rachel-the one she said MIGHT be possible when Gotham didn't need Batman. In a sense he was trying to get Dent to be so busy doing his lifework in exchange for taking Dent's woman from him-for purposes of expressing "emotional range" of a character. Bruce's origin(parents murder) is so entrenched in the public mind that it cannot be altered by any filmmaker. That is the fuel for his desire to save Gotham. By TDK, he gets his second ally in Dent and he's ready to give it up? The mob might have lost some steam, but the crazies are still out there.

2) Batman can always be in the shadows, and with Gordon running the show for 8 years the police would never seriously manhunt for him. So why did Bruce Wayne go into hiding? If he was ready to give up Batman, then at least the murder of his friends could be a reasonable cover for his motivation to make Gotham a better place.

Instead, the fricking clean water machine was yet another reason for him to quit. Why did he quit? He felt like he failed and after Rachel he couldn't fail, it's too fricking painful. Batman doesn't accept failure. The creative team wanted a "final story" so they changed the character to make it fit.

3) Harvey Dent wasn't really Harvey Dent in those films. He was always crazy.

4) The films were always about the escalation of evil. Mob-League of Shadows-Scarecrow-Joker...So he puts the Joker away and all evil goes away? The bad guys are so afraid of a law that Batman isn't needed for 8 years? In addition to that, the League of Shadows among others were still looking to kill him. So he quits, gives up his training and camps out in his bedroom? No desire or plan to protect himself in case someone comes knocking?

FWIW, if Ledger hadn't died we would not have gotten that version of the 3rd film.

Nolan's Batman was far less determined than any incarnation out there.

I'll bet Batfleck is truer to the character than Nolan's idea of Batman.

Also, this movie should be Exhibit A why Cap is so much more of a badass the Batman.