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Started By
Message
To those saying Nebraska can't ever win Conference titles or National titles
Posted on 12/2/14 at 10:02 am
Posted on 12/2/14 at 10:02 am
Bottom line is this: No, it isn't as easy for Nebraska as it used to be and it isn't as easy for them as it is a top 6 SEC school.
However, their competition isn't as stiff either.
Consider this: With two coaches who were not exactly recruiting geniuses, they have averaged the following:
* Top 20 class every year the past 10 years
* 3rd in the B1G in recruiting the past 10 years, including 1 top 5 class nationally.
If they average 3rd or 4th in recruiting in the B1G + great scheme, then Nebraska should be able to compete for a conference title every 3 years and a playoff spot every 6 years or so.
That's not bad. They won't ever be mid-90s Nebraska or current Alabama again unless they get lucky with local kids like Crouch/Ahman Green/Grant Wistrom again, but it's not the "wasteland" you make it out to be. IF they recruit their 500 miles radius plus good Jucos, they can add a few 4* kids from CA, TX, FL, and OH to help make a championship caliber class.
The thing is.....they can't miss on prospects. They have less wiggle room when it comes to evaluation as opposed to an LSU or Bama offering shittons of 4* kids without much evaluation and then seeing what sticks.
Recruiting isn't life. It's certainly necessary, but to act like FSU, UT, USC, and UF who have struggled either now or the not too distant past didn't have 4 and 5 star recruits during that struggle is being dishonest. Those schools have proven you can suck pretty bad with 5* kids.
I distinctly remember a 3* studded team coming in and kicking the shite out of LSU's 4 and 5*'s and taking Bama's #1 recruiting class down to the wire. (Arkansas) Coaching matters. You need both. That's what makes Saban so damn good, is he is one of the few who is elite at both.
However, their competition isn't as stiff either.
Consider this: With two coaches who were not exactly recruiting geniuses, they have averaged the following:
* Top 20 class every year the past 10 years
* 3rd in the B1G in recruiting the past 10 years, including 1 top 5 class nationally.
If they average 3rd or 4th in recruiting in the B1G + great scheme, then Nebraska should be able to compete for a conference title every 3 years and a playoff spot every 6 years or so.
That's not bad. They won't ever be mid-90s Nebraska or current Alabama again unless they get lucky with local kids like Crouch/Ahman Green/Grant Wistrom again, but it's not the "wasteland" you make it out to be. IF they recruit their 500 miles radius plus good Jucos, they can add a few 4* kids from CA, TX, FL, and OH to help make a championship caliber class.
The thing is.....they can't miss on prospects. They have less wiggle room when it comes to evaluation as opposed to an LSU or Bama offering shittons of 4* kids without much evaluation and then seeing what sticks.
Recruiting isn't life. It's certainly necessary, but to act like FSU, UT, USC, and UF who have struggled either now or the not too distant past didn't have 4 and 5 star recruits during that struggle is being dishonest. Those schools have proven you can suck pretty bad with 5* kids.
I distinctly remember a 3* studded team coming in and kicking the shite out of LSU's 4 and 5*'s and taking Bama's #1 recruiting class down to the wire. (Arkansas) Coaching matters. You need both. That's what makes Saban so damn good, is he is one of the few who is elite at both.
5
Posted on 12/2/14 at 10:25 am to Moustache
Not going to happen at Nebraska.
Posted on 12/2/14 at 10:34 am to sjmabry
They should hire Mike Gundy. Bring in some O with texas high school connections.
Posted on 12/2/14 at 10:39 am to Moustache
Give Nebraska a pass for playing weak competition, but not give LSU the same consideration for playing in the toughest division in football? I see how this works.
Our program does this now, but everyone wants the head coach fired.
quote:
compete for a conference title every 3 years and a playoff spot every 6 years or so
Our program does this now, but everyone wants the head coach fired.
Posted on 12/2/14 at 10:52 am to Moustache
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Consider this: With two coaches who were not exactly recruiting geniuses, they have averaged the following:
Bill Callahan was a very good recruiter.
Posted on 12/2/14 at 10:53 am to Moustache
Nebraska should hire Todd Graham and call it a day.
Posted on 12/2/14 at 11:04 am to Moustache
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However, their competition isn't as stiff either.
It is as soon as the hit the playoffs. That tOSU national title streak taught everyone that just being the best team in a wet paper bag B1G isn't enough.
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it's not the "wasteland" you make it out to be.
Yes they are, their state has had four draft picks the last three years:
LINK
A state like Oregon also only has four picks in the same time period, but they have Nike. In 2014 to a modern recruit Nike and those crazy uniforms matters more than all those Nebraska national titles.
Nebraska is screwed. The rise of TV exposure and money for lower programs means that they don't have a solid advantage over other teams in or near CA, TX, FL, and OH.
quote:
Recruiting isn't life.
It is. A team hasn't won a national title in years without at least one top 10 class on the roster. There is a certain caste system in college football based on who can get what talent, and a B1G Nebraska got permanently knocked down a class.
This is the age of underdogs, parity and mamas wanting to keep their boys close to home. If you are a 4* Texas prospect comparing a Nebraska to a A&M or a OSU, why the hell go hundreds of miles away from mama to play with crappier facilities? On some hope of a restored program that hasn't been good in your cognizant years?
Nope, Nebraska is screwed. When the next coach flops they will accept their fate as the new Minnesota.
Posted on 12/2/14 at 12:18 pm to cardboardboxer
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It is
Somebody forgot to tell FSU (00-2012), Texas, USC, and UF then . They've recruited as well as anyone adn fricking suck.
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That tOSU national title streak taught everyone that just being the best team in a wet paper bag B1G isn't enough.
Or maybe OSU played a great team. They also knocked off 2002 Miami who was close to being as talented as 01 Miami.
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Yes they are, their state has had four draft picks the last three years:
LINK
A state like Oregon also only has four picks in the same time period, but they have Nike. In 2014 to a modern recruit Nike and those crazy uniforms matters more than all those Nebraska national titles.
Nebraska is screwed. The rise of TV exposure and money for lower programs means that they don't have a solid advantage over other teams in or near CA, TX, FL, and OH.
YOu act like it's impossible to recruit to Nebraska. THey had a top 5 class as recently as 2005. The same rules apply then. Kids go where they're comfortable with the coach and where they have a chance to win.
Sure, some kids won't consider Nebraska due to distance. THey just won't get those kids.
Notre dame is pulling in top classes without having good instate talent.
quote:
with crappier facilities
You obviously know nothing about Nebraska's facilities.
Also, somebody forgot to tell Missouri they're not allowed to win the SEC East two times in a row because UGA, UT, USCe, and UF all have better recruits.
I'm not saying it isn't HARDER to do at NEbraska. But it certainly isn't impossible like you portray.
This post was edited on 12/2/14 at 12:20 pm
Posted on 12/2/14 at 12:26 pm to Moustache
I'm of the opinion that major programs always cycle back up, but it takes someone who really understands the culture and structure of the Nebraska job to have any amount of success. Notre Dame is another major program where this is the case. It's just not as easy at those two programs as it was 20 years ago. They no longer have the advantages they once did.
Posted on 12/2/14 at 12:44 pm to CapstoneGrad06
quote:
I'm of the opinion that major programs always cycle back up, but it takes someone who really understands the culture and structure of the Nebraska job to have any amount of success. Notre Dame is another major program where this is the case. It's just not as easy at those two programs as it was 20 years ago. They no longer have the advantages they once did.
I agree with this. It's not as easy, but both of these programs still have great things to offer. They don't have the tv advantages and whatnot, but they still offer a lot.
As a matter of fact, Nebraska never really was raking in top 10 classes. THeir scheme really made up for a lot. Plus, they were on the forefront of strength and conditioning. (I know, I know---steroids. But EVERYBDOY in the Big 8 and SWC did 'roids)
Posted on 12/2/14 at 12:52 pm to Moustache
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They've recruited as well as anyone adn fricking suck.
Recruiting well does not guarantee national titles, but in the modern era if you don't recruit well it is a guarantee you can't win a national title.
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Or maybe OSU played a great team.
As will Nebraska every time they get blown out of the playoffs.
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YOu act like it's impossible to recruit to Nebraska.
It pretty much is.
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THey had a top 5 class as recently as 2005. The same rules apply then.
NOT EVEN A LITTLE BIT! Back in 2005, Nebraska was in a conference with many Texas teams. You know Texas, the state with all that talent? The state will more talent than all the B1G territory combined minus Ohio?
It is completely different for Nebraska now than then. Part of it is realignment, part is increased exposure for non-helmet programs.
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Notre dame is pulling in top classes without having good instate talent.
Not really.
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You obviously know nothing about Nebraska's facilities.
I Googled them before I made that comment and I can say with confidence that they don't come close to what we have or what Oklahoma State has. You obviously know nothing about OSU's facilities.
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As a matter of fact, Nebraska never really was raking in top 10 classes. THeir scheme really made up for a lot.
So did this thing called "partial qualifiers" that were the backbone of all those Osborne teams. When the Big 12 was formed and everyone BUT Nebraska voted for them to go away that program was basically changed forever.
Also Nebraska back in the day used to recruit SoCal hard. I don't see kids going from Compton to the cornfields in 2014.
Nebraska is screwed, their best hope is conference titles and a one-and-done playoff run.
Posted on 12/2/14 at 1:35 pm to cardboardboxer
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As will Nebraska every time they get blown out of the playoffs.
Yeah, because they totally got blown out in the past title games despite having less talent.
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It pretty much is.
It's harder but not impossible. Alabama is getting kids nationally to Tuscaloosa, AL. Tuscaloosa sucks, but kids go where winning is. I'm not just talking GA kids. Bama is getting NJ kids, CA kids, IL kids, MN, etc. etc.
Nebraska has still been pulling in top 20 classes and 4 star recruits despite Bo not really caring all that much about recruiting. Bo was notorious for not being a fan of recruiting.
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NOT EVEN A LITTLE BIT! Back in 2005, Nebraska was in a conference with many Texas teams. You know Texas, the state with all that talent? The state will more talent than all the B1G territory combined minus Ohio?
Nebraska still has TX ties. They actually do fairly decent in CA and they have landed a few 4* from OH. This same "no talent" team beat all those 4 and 5* UGA's arse last year.
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Not really.
This is how I know you don't pay attention to recruiting. Kelly has been doing great at ND in regards to recruiting.
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I Googled them before I made that comment and I can say with confidence that they don't come close to what we have or what Oklahoma State has. You obviously know nothing about OSU's facilities.
I'd say their not "crappier" as you said. THey're about on par with SEC facilities. Better than some SEC facilities (UGA, UF) as a matter of fact.
quote:
So did this thing called "partial qualifiers" that were the backbone of all those Osborne teams
I love this excuse. You act as though the entire Big 8 and SWC didn't do this. You don't think SEC schools did this either? Herschel Walker couldn't even fricking read.
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Also Nebraska back in the day used to recruit SoCal hard. I don't see kids going from Compton to the cornfields in 2014.
4* running back Terrell Newby committed to play for them. The guys is gonna be a great RB. Nebraska starts winning and gets a coach who gives a frick about recruiting, I'd bet they can dip into SOcal again.
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Nebraska is screwed, their best hope is conference titles and a one-and-done playoff run.
I wouldn't call conference titles and playoff appearances "screwed."
IN that case, almost EVERY team is screwed.
Also, Nebraska never pulled in top 10 classes during their dominant run in the 90s and they didn't have a whole team full of partial qualifiers either. Here's the starting lineup from the 95 team that skull fricked the mighty UF NFL 5* studs.
QB- Crouch----NE---not partial Qualifier
RB- Phillips--CA---partial qualifier
WB- Green- ---NE---not partial Qualifier
FB- Mackovicka-NE--not partial qualifier
T- Anderson----NE---not partial qualifier
T- Dishman-----NE---not partial qualifier
C- Graham------NM---not partial qualifier
G- Ott --------NE---not partial qualifier
G- Taylor------TX---not partial qualifier
SE- Baul--------NE---not partial qualifier
TE- Gilman------MT---not partial qualifier
DL-C. Peter-----NJ---not partial qualifier
DL-J. Peter-----NJ---not partial qualifier
DL-Tomich-------IN---not partial qualifier
DL-Wistrom------MO---not partial qualifier
LB-Colman-------NJ---not partial qualifier
LB-Farley-------GA---(JUCO player from KS)
LB-Foreman------MN---not partial qualifier
DB-Booker-------CA---partial qualifier
DB-Minter-------OK---not partial qualifier
DB-Veland-------NE---not partial qualifier
DB-Williams-----FL---not partial qualifier
As you can see, they did what I said they need to do. Lock down the 500 miles radius near campus, hit the KS jucos, pluck a few kids nationally.
Only 2 partial qualifiers that MANY other teams still wanted.
Williams chose NEbraska because of Frazier. Minter chose Nebraska for their scheme adn style of football. He had plenty of offers.
Any coach decent at recruiting can pluck a few kids nationally like TO did with this team.
Posted on 12/2/14 at 2:38 pm to Moustache
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Alabama is getting kids nationally to Tuscaloosa, AL.
That is because Alabama has the best coach of the modern era. Prior to Saban they weren't drawing talent all over from the country.
The Urban and Nick type splash hires are rare. I don't see Nebraska hiring a coach with a national title on the resume, not with the AD thinking about money. They need a name like that to get kids to go to the cornfields.
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Nebraska has still been pulling in top 20 classes
So was A&M prior to the SEC but we weren't competing for anything. Honestly unless you are competing for top 10 classes every year you are fooling yourself that you can compete for a national title. The game is rigged.
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Nebraska still has TX ties.
Not really. I haven't seen them compete for a major four star in Texas in years.
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This same "no talent" team beat all those 4 and 5* UGA's arse last year.
So? Boise also beat UGA's arse and they didn't win shite either. I think beating UGA isn't a good argument for anything.
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Kelly has been doing great at ND in regards to recruiting.
Sure, but their ceiling in the modern era is higher than Nebraska. ND still means something, Nebraska doesn't. When Nebraska was still a contender with one loss this season no one cared. Its dead Jim.
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Better than some SEC facilities (UGA, UF) as a matter of fact.
Worse than some too.
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Terrell Newby
No SEC offers.
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I'd bet they can dip into SOcal again.
Based on....?
Their brand is crap right now, and Oregon is the hot thing on the West Coast. Just the fact that Oregon is a bigger brand and destination than Nebraska right now shows you everything going against Big Red (or Michigan, or Tenn, etc.) making a comeback.
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Also, Nebraska never pulled in top 10 classes during their dominant run in the 90s
Modern recruiting rankings didn't exist then so it is comparing Apples and Oranges.
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Here's the starting lineup from the 95 team
AKA from a completely different era.
In the modern era, kids either want to stay close to home or wear a cool jersey. Glory days and black and white photos of past victories don't hold appeal anymore. Every major trend in recruiting, population shifts, and style of play since 1995 has gone against Nebraska. It would almost take a reboot of the sport (like a semi-pro league is made that takes all the talent and college football turns into the equivalent of college baseball) for Nebraska to be a top 10 program again.
And I say that as someone who likes their program, as they picked the lock to the Big 12 jail.
Posted on 12/2/14 at 3:01 pm to cardboardboxer
Comparing Nebraska to Oklahoma State is laughable. I can assure you that Nebraska's facilities are far and away better than anything OSU has to offer. It's pretty unanimous that despite their location, Nebraska's facilities are among the best. You're also guaranteed to play in front of a full house every week, no matter the opponent.
Oklahoma State... lol... you DO know that Nebraska beat them 24 straight times, right?
As for RBs, how about Adam Taylor, who will be returning next year? LSU wanted him badly.
I'm not saying Nebraska will return to elite status -- they might not. They have a lot of things working against them. But I admire them for having the balls to refuse to accept irrelevance and mediocrity and continue to strive for excellence.
Oklahoma State... lol... you DO know that Nebraska beat them 24 straight times, right?
As for RBs, how about Adam Taylor, who will be returning next year? LSU wanted him badly.
I'm not saying Nebraska will return to elite status -- they might not. They have a lot of things working against them. But I admire them for having the balls to refuse to accept irrelevance and mediocrity and continue to strive for excellence.
This post was edited on 12/2/14 at 3:04 pm
Posted on 12/2/14 at 3:07 pm to cardboardboxer
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That is because Alabama has the best coach of the modern era. Prior to Saban they weren't drawing talent all over from the country.
My point is...if you win, the kids come regardless of your location.
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So was A&M prior to the SEC but we weren't competing for anything. Honestly unless you are competing for top 10 classes every year you are fooling yourself that you can compete for a national title. The game is rigged.
I guess Oregon and their non-top 10 classes forgot they weren't allowed to play Auburn in the 2010 championship.
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Not really. I haven't seen them compete for a major four star in Texas in years.
Aaron Green, Jamal Turner, Charles Jackson, David Santos, REx Burkhead, Cody Green----All 4 stars from TX (YEARS my arse)
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Sure, but their ceiling in the modern era is higher than Nebraska. ND still means something, Nebraska doesn't. When Nebraska was still a contender with one loss this season no one cared. Its dead Jim.
People said the same thing about ND when Weis was there. That they couldn't recruit. THen Kelly goes out and rattles off a few top 10, and one top 5 class.
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No SEC offers.
FALSE. Arky and Ole Miss offered him. He also had offers from UCLA and Oregon. This kids wasn't a scrub 4*.
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Their brand is crap right now, and Oregon is the hot thing on the West Coast. Just the fact that Oregon is a bigger brand and destination than Nebraska right now shows you everything going against Big Red (or Michigan, or Tenn, etc.) making a comeback.
You're very myopic and fail to realize these things go in cycles. You're gonna sit there and say Michigan and Tenn can't make a come back? Didn't you just watch a season in which MSU dominated the west?
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Modern recruiting rankings didn't exist then so it is comparing Apples and Oranges.
No, but looking at their lineup it's clear they werent' pulling in all bluechippers like many believe.
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In the modern era, kids either want to stay close to home or wear a cool jersey.
That's my point of posting their team. A lot of their kids were local or close to their campus. They had superior scheme and great development. It can be done again.
Posted on 12/2/14 at 3:16 pm to Requiem for a Dream
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I can assure you that Nebraska's facilities are far and away better than anything OSU has to offer.
Then you would assure me of something that is wrong.
Here is Nebraska's player's lounge. It looks like an 80's dingy Pizza Hut:
Here is the Oklahoma State player's lounge, it looks like something out of the Jetsons:
Here is Nebraska's locker room, it looks small and wooden just like your aunt's house:
Meanwhile here is the Oklahoma State lockeroom that looks more like a practice facility:
So as you can see OSU in many ways has better facilities than Nebraska. A&M's facilities are better than either IMHO- Nebraska is behind in the arm's race.
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Oklahoma State... lol... you DO know that Nebraska beat them 24 straight times, right?
That doesn't matter in 2014. All those pre-B1G wins don't build better facilities or hire better coaches, the boosters do.
I get people like Nebraska because they were good when you were growing up or whatever but their time as a top 10 program is over.
Posted on 12/2/14 at 3:20 pm to Moustache
If you look at the Big 10 right now. Ohio State has the advantage. They also have a very good coach and a better recruiting base than Nebraska. I think the pundits are correct, Nebraska is in some trouble and Bo did about as good as you can do in that situation.
I don't blame them for leaving the horns conference. They are in worse shape than Tennessee but don't have the conference affiliation that UT does. They do have the benefit of a weaker schedule.
I don't blame them for leaving the horns conference. They are in worse shape than Tennessee but don't have the conference affiliation that UT does. They do have the benefit of a weaker schedule.
Posted on 12/2/14 at 3:25 pm to cardboardboxer
ooooh, I can play the bad picture game.
HEre is Nebraska's strenght and conditioning center.
Here is Okie lite's:
Nebraska's indoor football facility:
Okie lite's indoor football facility:
HEre is Nebraska's strenght and conditioning center.
Here is Okie lite's:
Nebraska's indoor football facility:
Okie lite's indoor football facility:
Posted on 12/2/14 at 3:28 pm to Moustache
And for good measure:
Here's a different shot of the player's lounge:
Different shot of lockerroom:
Here's a different shot of the player's lounge:
Different shot of lockerroom:
Posted on 12/2/14 at 3:31 pm to NotRight37
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If you look at the Big 10 right now. Ohio State has the advantage.
No doubt. But MSU proved last year you can knock off the top dog with good scheme, coaching, and evaluation. You just have less room for error.
I'm not saying Nebraska will or won't succeed. I'm saying it isn't impossible like some of the people here. I always wonder if people here are as afraid of a challenge IRL.
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Nebraska is in some trouble and Bo did about as good as you can do in that situation.
Depending on the next hire, they may be in trouble. I don't think what Bo did is their ceiling. They should be able to win a division made up of Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Purdue, and Northwestern. ASking to win that division once isn't asking too much in 5 years IMO.
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