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Started By
Message
No Miles,Saban, or Urban, so who then? Caveat Emptor...
Posted on 11/17/14 at 3:58 pm
Posted on 11/17/14 at 3:58 pm
I posted this back on 11/28/2012, and have since updated the winning %s. Most of you need to curb your enthusiasm regarding Miles getting canned and his mythical replacement...
Everytime I see someone arguing that LSU is better off with Miles, the root of their argument is that LSU would hire a slamdunk, sure fire head coach to replace him. Hell, I'm a Miles guy, but if I knew I would get Jim Harbaugh to replace him, I would be fine. But that is not how these things work.
With Miles, LSU can be anywhere from 8-5 to 13-1, and we will likely maintain an .810 winning percentage. We will compete for conference and national championships, and we will scratch our heads at some of his moves the whole time.
However, without Miles, who actually knows what we will be? Is there a coach out there that could improve upon what Miles has done? Sure. But the problem is that the vast majority of coaches will likely underperform Miles, and that is simply not a risk worth taking.
For LSU, the only available coach in the country who is a sure-fire, slam dunk kind of guy is already at the helm.
--I've made my point, but keep reading for further evidence and save the tl;dr responses--
Perhaps we can learn from history that the grass is not always greener on the other side...
Nebraska 2003: Fired Frank Solich (.766 W%) and hired Bill Callahan. AD said he would not "let Nebraska gravitate into mediocrity" with Solich. Callahan was fired after 4 seasons and a .551 W%.
Tennessee 2008: Forced Phillip Fulmer (.745 W%) to step down. Volunteers are looking for their 3rd coach since then and sport a .449 W% since Fulmer was let go. Of note is the fact that Tennessee still sports a higher all-time winning percentage than LSU, but it did not insulate them from mediocrity.
Florida 2002: Steve Spurrier left after posting a .813 W% at Florida. It was a premier program in the country at the time. The Florida AD was turned down by Mike Shanahan and Bob Stoops. Ron Zook ultimately landed the job and proceeded to go 23-14 over three seasons at a school that took six years to lose 14 games before Zook got there.
Michigan 2007: Forced out Lloyd Carr (.753 W%) for his lackluster record against Ohio State (6-7). Hired hot-shot Rich Rodriguez and limped to a 15-22 record over the next 3 seasons.
Alabama 1997: Even Alabama is not infallible. After Gene Stallings retired in 1996 with an .805 W%, it took Alabama 10 seasons, 4 coaches, a .553 W%, and a textbook scandal to get Nick Saban. That record includes their forfeited wins. Officially, Alabama had a losing record during that span and a .486 W%.
In fact, since 2000, I can only find 4 programs that have replaced coaches with .700+ W% and had even greater success with the newcomer.
TCU replaced Dennis Franchionne (.714 W%) with Gary Patterson in 2000, and Patterson has led TCU to a .741 W% since then.
Boise State in 2000 replaced Dirk Koetter (.722 W%) with Dan Hawkins, who posted a .828 W% from 2001-2005. Boise found even greater success replacing Hawkins with Chris Petersen who has produced a .885 W% since 2006.
Miami in 2001 replaced Butch Davis (.718 W%) with Larry Coker, who went 60-15 from 2001-2006 for a .800 W%. Coker was fired in 2006 after posting consecutively worse seasons each year, so I think this actually strenghtens my argument.
And finally, LSU in 2005, who replaced Nick Saban and his .750 W% with Les Miles, who has posted an .785 W% since then.
Very long story short, any rational observer can see that there is little reason to be excited over having to replace Les Miles.
Everytime I see someone arguing that LSU is better off with Miles, the root of their argument is that LSU would hire a slamdunk, sure fire head coach to replace him. Hell, I'm a Miles guy, but if I knew I would get Jim Harbaugh to replace him, I would be fine. But that is not how these things work.
With Miles, LSU can be anywhere from 8-5 to 13-1, and we will likely maintain an .810 winning percentage. We will compete for conference and national championships, and we will scratch our heads at some of his moves the whole time.
However, without Miles, who actually knows what we will be? Is there a coach out there that could improve upon what Miles has done? Sure. But the problem is that the vast majority of coaches will likely underperform Miles, and that is simply not a risk worth taking.
For LSU, the only available coach in the country who is a sure-fire, slam dunk kind of guy is already at the helm.
--I've made my point, but keep reading for further evidence and save the tl;dr responses--
Perhaps we can learn from history that the grass is not always greener on the other side...
Nebraska 2003: Fired Frank Solich (.766 W%) and hired Bill Callahan. AD said he would not "let Nebraska gravitate into mediocrity" with Solich. Callahan was fired after 4 seasons and a .551 W%.
Tennessee 2008: Forced Phillip Fulmer (.745 W%) to step down. Volunteers are looking for their 3rd coach since then and sport a .449 W% since Fulmer was let go. Of note is the fact that Tennessee still sports a higher all-time winning percentage than LSU, but it did not insulate them from mediocrity.
Florida 2002: Steve Spurrier left after posting a .813 W% at Florida. It was a premier program in the country at the time. The Florida AD was turned down by Mike Shanahan and Bob Stoops. Ron Zook ultimately landed the job and proceeded to go 23-14 over three seasons at a school that took six years to lose 14 games before Zook got there.
Michigan 2007: Forced out Lloyd Carr (.753 W%) for his lackluster record against Ohio State (6-7). Hired hot-shot Rich Rodriguez and limped to a 15-22 record over the next 3 seasons.
Alabama 1997: Even Alabama is not infallible. After Gene Stallings retired in 1996 with an .805 W%, it took Alabama 10 seasons, 4 coaches, a .553 W%, and a textbook scandal to get Nick Saban. That record includes their forfeited wins. Officially, Alabama had a losing record during that span and a .486 W%.
In fact, since 2000, I can only find 4 programs that have replaced coaches with .700+ W% and had even greater success with the newcomer.
TCU replaced Dennis Franchionne (.714 W%) with Gary Patterson in 2000, and Patterson has led TCU to a .741 W% since then.
Boise State in 2000 replaced Dirk Koetter (.722 W%) with Dan Hawkins, who posted a .828 W% from 2001-2005. Boise found even greater success replacing Hawkins with Chris Petersen who has produced a .885 W% since 2006.
Miami in 2001 replaced Butch Davis (.718 W%) with Larry Coker, who went 60-15 from 2001-2006 for a .800 W%. Coker was fired in 2006 after posting consecutively worse seasons each year, so I think this actually strenghtens my argument.
And finally, LSU in 2005, who replaced Nick Saban and his .750 W% with Les Miles, who has posted an .785 W% since then.
Very long story short, any rational observer can see that there is little reason to be excited over having to replace Les Miles.
Posted on 11/17/14 at 4:02 pm to slackster
You've convinced me...I'm going to bury my head in the sand and hope things get better.
Posted on 11/17/14 at 4:03 pm to RedTigerRulz
quote:
.I'm going to bury my head in the sand and hope things get better.
from the evidence we have, things will get better
so...
Posted on 11/17/14 at 4:04 pm to slackster
I'm not saying he needs to be fired yet but it is the luck of the draw. He was 28-49 at Ok State, not exactly lighting it up there before coming here.
Posted on 11/17/14 at 4:05 pm to slackster
It's not really the losses themselves. It's the unexplained, baffling decisions and complete evasion of fault in pressers that taint the losses.
Posted on 11/17/14 at 4:05 pm to slackster
Bookmarked. End. Of. Discussion.
Posted on 11/17/14 at 4:06 pm to 337tigergirl
quote:
I'm not saying he needs to be fired yet but it is the luck of the draw. He was 28-49 at Ok State, not exactly lighting it up there before coming here.
That program was not what they are today. Very different team .
Posted on 11/17/14 at 4:06 pm to Salmon
quote:
from the evidence we have, things will get better so...
Well generally speaking, when you hit bottom, there is only one way to go...so there's that.
Posted on 11/17/14 at 4:07 pm to slackster
Good post.
This post was edited on 11/17/14 at 4:08 pm
Posted on 11/17/14 at 4:07 pm to 337tigergirl
If Miles is the CEO of this operation, he needs to delegate authority and get out of the way.
Posted on 11/17/14 at 4:07 pm to slackster
quote:
Caveat Emptor...
You've effectively eliminated 90% of the rant from understanding the point of your post by using this phrase.
Posted on 11/17/14 at 4:08 pm to RedTigerRulz
quote:
Well generally speaking, when you hit bottom, there is only one way to go...so there's that.
You think this is the bottom. That's lol-worthy.
Posted on 11/17/14 at 4:09 pm to Salmon
quote:
from the evidence we have, things will get better
Yep. We will get a Defense that is just plain filthy and our terrible O will be hidden enough to only cost us 2-3 games. This is what we are holding onto. We have the exact same evidence that our O will consistently suck.
Posted on 11/17/14 at 4:09 pm to Duckie
quote:
That program was not what they are today. Very different team .
If Miles is so great, why wasn't it what they are today when he was there?
Posted on 11/17/14 at 4:11 pm to slackster
quote:
the root of their argument is that LSU would hire a slamdunk, sure fire head coach to replace him
Nope.....no....no...I haven't seen anybody post this....horseshite.
Everyone knows its a gamble. If it was surefire...Miles would have been gone after 1/9.
This point is moot.
Posted on 11/17/14 at 4:15 pm to RedTigerRulz
quote:
If it was surefire...Miles would have been gone after 1/9.
Ha... No. You don't fire your coach that just led you to a 12-0 regular season and and SEC title because he lays an egg in the championship. That's not how the world works.
Posted on 11/17/14 at 4:17 pm to RedTigerRulz
I agree and have always been a Miles supporter. However I recognize "the game has changed" argument as well. LSU on defense and special teams have been very good with few exceptions in the last ten years. On offense, LSU has been good with competent QBs in the last ten years. Unfortunately, LSU has not had many.
Chavis turned this 14 defense around and 13 D ranked higher nationally and in the SEC than the 13 O did despite all the accolades and NFL success the O in 13 received.
Offense has always been the problem with Les and it obviously comes down to the QBs.
Chavis turned this 14 defense around and 13 D ranked higher nationally and in the SEC than the 13 O did despite all the accolades and NFL success the O in 13 received.
Offense has always been the problem with Les and it obviously comes down to the QBs.
Posted on 11/17/14 at 4:22 pm to slackster
You can stat it to death but if Miles goes 7-5 next year and loses to Alabama again he will benon the hot seat! Bet you $2 arse on it!
Posted on 11/17/14 at 4:28 pm to demtigers73
ULL head coach Mark Hudspeth. Look at his record and watch some of his teams in action. He's already shown that he can recruit well in Louisiana. He'd bring some new energy and swagger to Death Valley.
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