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re: Can the Pelicans become a top defensive team?

Posted on 11/17/14 at 8:25 am to
Posted by TheSexecutioner
Member since Mar 2011
5247 posts
Posted on 11/17/14 at 8:25 am to
The logic to me just doesn't really matter unless you are weighting it and tying it down relative to replacement level players. Its like saying 1st basemen are more important fielders because a 25% mess-up rate(dropping the ball) is more costly than a 25% mess up rate with any other position in the field. You could logic that out and be correct. But its still the least important defensive position because any Joe Blow can do it.

Same thing here. More 7 foot galloots can block shots at the rim than can block shots from further away.
Posted by corndeaux
Member since Sep 2009
9634 posts
Posted on 11/19/14 at 4:35 pm to
Another read from Nylon Calculus on the value of blocked shots.

ETA- LINK

quote:

For a long time we’ve used blocks as a proxy for rim protection, and that actually made sense since there is a definite relationship and they were the only data poins that could be realistically collected by score keepers. There is a strong relationship between blocks and attempting to defending the rim. Last year there was a 0.662 R2 (.813 correlation) between blocks per forty minutes and contests of opponents’ shots at the rim per forty minutes, for all players that saw at least 500 minutes of action. As shown below:




quote:

For those players significantly away from the trend line the question is whether they are very efficient at getting blocks per contest at the rim, or are blocking shots away from the rim. And even more importantly how good of a proxy blocks are, overall, for defending the rim?

SportVU, of course, also provides the percentage opponents score on each player when defending the rim. Below is a chart of blocks per 40 minutes played and opponent’s field goal percentage at them rim when the player contested a shot last year, the R2 in this case is only 0.29.




This next quote is fascinating.

quote:

An interesting thing in analyzing this data is that with the frequency and effectiveness of rim protection included, the value of blocks is negative 1. There are a number of reasons high frequency blockers might be less valuable rim protectors, from collecting blocks away from the rim to a propensity to get out of position, being over eager and falling shot fakes. But, that is not the kind of term I am comfortable including in a model based on one year of data without a better understanding of the complete long-term relationship. In any case, we don’t have SportVU data in any league outside of the NBA and there for only one year plus at this point, so we’ll have to keep using blocks as a proxy, but with perhaps an added caveat or two
This post was edited on 11/19/14 at 4:51 pm
Posted by quail man
New York, NY
Member since May 2010
40925 posts
Posted on 11/19/14 at 4:44 pm to
Cool shite. Thanks for the link
Posted by corndeaux
Member since Sep 2009
9634 posts
Posted on 11/19/14 at 4:50 pm to
whoops. forgot the link.

LINK

will post above too
Posted by Galactic Inquisitor
An Incredibly Distant Star
Member since Dec 2013
15169 posts
Posted on 11/19/14 at 4:53 pm to
I think it really depends on the position you defend, the type of defense run, and the players you have to defend. AD isn't used as a rim protector/anchor, so the negative value concept doesn't make sense. It seems his high number of blocks means people elect not to challenge him at the rim, thus the lower FGARmin. He also steps out quite a bit by design. He blocks shots all over the floor.

I don't think he meant AD in that statement, but I think his theory and methods could be tweaked.
Posted by htran90
BC
Member since Dec 2012
30080 posts
Posted on 11/19/14 at 4:57 pm to
AD's unique ability is that he can defend from the 3pt line to the rim. His elevation and wing span is unreal to the point difficult mid range jumpers are blockable.

What is very good about this is, we finally have a defensive anchor that allows AD to defend anywhere and everywhere without giving up the easy shot at the rim. Team concept, and it will continue to improve as long as everyone stays healthy and gets playing time together.
Posted by Galactic Inquisitor
An Incredibly Distant Star
Member since Dec 2013
15169 posts
Posted on 11/19/14 at 4:58 pm to
AD is in a pretty good spot on each of those charts, by the way. Few shots defended at the rim because the league is scared.
Posted by corndeaux
Member since Sep 2009
9634 posts
Posted on 11/19/14 at 5:03 pm to
quote:

I think it really depends on the position you defend, the type of defense run, and the players you have to defend


Absolutely. The article linked on the first page of this thread admits as much. Davis hard hedging 30 feet from the hoop means he doesn't have as many chances to defend the rim. Davis's insane wingspan and quickness mean he might contest more shots even if he's not anchored by the rim. Davis guarding 4s means he's usually starting farther out. Etc.

It's an interesting theory. Certainly Asik isn't a high level shot blocker. Curious to follow this one for a while and see what he discovers
Posted by Boomshockalocka
Member since Feb 2004
59689 posts
Posted on 11/19/14 at 5:06 pm to
Apparently the author has been lurking on Pels talk..
Posted by corndeaux
Member since Sep 2009
9634 posts
Posted on 11/19/14 at 5:13 pm to
Was waiting for the gloating.

I don't think i ever disagreed with your overall idea. Just your generalities on a very intricate subject.
Posted by quail man
New York, NY
Member since May 2010
40925 posts
Posted on 11/19/14 at 5:15 pm to
shite I wasn't trying to be a dick, I googled the story and found it. Apologies. Just too used to writing link instead of story
Posted by corndeaux
Member since Sep 2009
9634 posts
Posted on 11/19/14 at 5:16 pm to
Didn't think that all

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