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Started By
Message
Liberalism 101; Why Gruber was "right" to Lie about Obamacare
Posted on 11/15/14 at 11:11 am
Posted on 11/15/14 at 11:11 am
The American people can't be trusted to know their own interests. Furthermore, they can't be trusted to have deference for those who do know what's best for them. Therefore, to move our great Societal Transformation...FORWARD 
it is necessary to craft a strategy that takes these factors into account.
First we must all stay on the same page, which requires Party Discipline and a compliant and fundamentally dishonest media. Check.
Next, we need to defame and discredit anybody who disagrees with the merits of our Societal Project. Rather than debate them on the merits, we should focus on destroying their credibility. Again, all that is required is cultural "cooperation" via societal "taste-makers" in the popular culture and the media. Check.
We must lie, change the topic and lie again. Remember, today's orchestrated lies will be tomorrow's shining new legislation. If they aren't smart enough to understand that they don't understand their own interests, we must LIE to them, for their own good.
Next we push the legislation through unilaterally and against the wishes of the majority of The American People. When the inherent "losers" of Our Project complain, we again defame and marginalize them in the popular culture and through the dominant media culture. Remember, honesty is for Reactionaries. History belongs to those willing to crack a few eggs.
In the end, we can't really worry about Constitutional over-reach , the "rights" of the new class of "losers" we have targeted, silly notions of limited government or any other such nonsense. We were sent here to achieve nothing short of perfecting a flawed part of human nature. We stand athwart history, victorious, toppling the outdated customs and laws of our lessor predecessors. Our Noble Idea won't be sacrificed at the alter of discredited ideas about Individual Liberty or The Rule Of Law.
Forward!
it is necessary to craft a strategy that takes these factors into account. First we must all stay on the same page, which requires Party Discipline and a compliant and fundamentally dishonest media. Check.
Next, we need to defame and discredit anybody who disagrees with the merits of our Societal Project. Rather than debate them on the merits, we should focus on destroying their credibility. Again, all that is required is cultural "cooperation" via societal "taste-makers" in the popular culture and the media. Check.
We must lie, change the topic and lie again. Remember, today's orchestrated lies will be tomorrow's shining new legislation. If they aren't smart enough to understand that they don't understand their own interests, we must LIE to them, for their own good.
Next we push the legislation through unilaterally and against the wishes of the majority of The American People. When the inherent "losers" of Our Project complain, we again defame and marginalize them in the popular culture and through the dominant media culture. Remember, honesty is for Reactionaries. History belongs to those willing to crack a few eggs.
In the end, we can't really worry about Constitutional over-reach , the "rights" of the new class of "losers" we have targeted, silly notions of limited government or any other such nonsense. We were sent here to achieve nothing short of perfecting a flawed part of human nature. We stand athwart history, victorious, toppling the outdated customs and laws of our lessor predecessors. Our Noble Idea won't be sacrificed at the alter of discredited ideas about Individual Liberty or The Rule Of Law.
Forward!
12
Posted on 11/15/14 at 11:19 am to Lsupimp
They won't say it with your sarcasm, but this is, essentially, the progressive argument for all of their unpopular policies.
Marxists believe this as well.
Marxists believe this as well.
Posted on 11/15/14 at 11:20 am to Lsupimp
Indeed.
The view from the paternalistic parent/child paradigm.
The view from the paternalistic parent/child paradigm.
Posted on 11/15/14 at 11:21 am to Lsupimp
The bottom line for Liberals is they really don't like the concept of Democracy at all. They consider that to be letting idiots decide their own fate.
But, they really LOVE democracy if they can get away with lying and have a compliant press to help participate in the lying. THEN, the fact that yeah, voters aren't bright, is an asset to these dictator wannabes
But, they really LOVE democracy if they can get away with lying and have a compliant press to help participate in the lying. THEN, the fact that yeah, voters aren't bright, is an asset to these dictator wannabes
Posted on 11/15/14 at 11:23 am to Lsupimp
quote:Can anyone list the "lies" that Gruber is supposed to have revealed? With a little detail?
Liberalism 101; Why Gruber was "right" to Lie about Obamacare
Posted on 11/15/14 at 11:26 am to Lsupimp
Gruber was right about one thing: the American voting public is (by and large) very stupid, though it isn't politically expedient to admit it. The liberal voter is probably the dumbest of them all and that is who Gruber was speaking of in his comments.
This post was edited on 11/15/14 at 11:27 am
Posted on 11/15/14 at 11:27 am to mmcgrath
quote:Jeebus. Can't you just watch the videos and here what HE HIMSELF described as lies? Is that so hard?
Can anyone list the "lies" that Gruber is supposed to have revealed? With a little detail?
Posted on 11/15/14 at 11:29 am to RollTide1987
quote:
Gruber was right about one thing: the American voting public is (by and large) very stupid, though it isn't politically expedient to admit it. The liberal voter is probably the dumbest of them all and that is who Gruber was speaking to.
For quite some time, conservatives have pointed out that many liberals ideas can only be popular when they lie to the voters about the true nature of what they want to accomplish.
Liberal voters have always gotten pissed at the assertion that they're getting fooled.
Gruber essentially has said, "yep, we fool em and it works.....cause the people who supported this stuff in the end would not have had we not fooled em".
Sure. There are liberals like Rex and VB who knew full well the whole thing was a lie. But that's not the point. Folks like Gruber and Rex both understand that most people hate their shite and as such, they've got to be lied to.
Posted on 11/15/14 at 11:30 am to mmcgrath
quote:
Can anyone list the "lies" that Gruber is supposed to have revealed? With a little detail?
-He said Romneycare only works if they ripped off the Feds - essentially, Ted Kennedy, Mitt Romney and he conspired to steal to make it work. So, they always knew that it couldn't work in a revenue-neutral way at the Federal level because there was no one from whom to steal.
-They had to call the 40% tax on the insurance company, when in reality, it was a tax on insurance policy holders or it wouldn't have passed (He said it still works, because the tax charge added is the same as the top marginal rate). ETA: He also said that when the bills came due, the "stupid" people would blame the insurance company and exchanges instead of the administration.
-CBO had to be fooled into scoring it incorrectly -if scored correctly, it would not have passed (this is key because most of the Dems, Pelosi particularly, relied upon this fudging to counter Republicans' correct criticisms of the costs).
- If the truth were told and it was known that this was a plan to, effectively, rob the young and healthy to pay for the healthcare of the sick and uninsured, it wouldn't have passed - the bill had to be written in a (either tortued or tortuous way - I don't want to misquote him) in order to achieve all these ends in a non-transparent way.
The insulting part (although not terribly untrue) is that he contends that the relative stupidity of the American people on basic economics was key to passing the law.
This post was edited on 11/15/14 at 11:37 am
Posted on 11/15/14 at 11:31 am to ShortyRob
quote:Yes it is. It doesn't seem like there is a lot of straightforward discussion in the media.
Jeebus. Can't you just watch the videos and here what HE HIMSELF described as lies? Is that so hard?
What I have gathered is the following:
1) Gruber stated that voters are "idiots".
2) Gruber stated that charging the insurance companies instead of patients "hid" charges becuase the voters were "stupid." Not sure what charges he is referring to.
Posted on 11/15/14 at 11:32 am to ShortyRob
Romney was blasted about the 47%
Gruber was absolutely counting on them.
Gruber was absolutely counting on them.
Posted on 11/15/14 at 11:32 am to mmcgrath
quote:
2) Gruber stated that charging the insurance companies instead of patients "hid" charges becuase the voters were "stupid." Not sure what charges he is referring to.
That's the Cadillac tax.
Posted on 11/15/14 at 11:33 am to mmcgrath
quote:
2) Gruber stated that charging the insurance companies instead of patients "hid" charges becuase the voters were "stupid." Not sure what charges he is referring to.
If you didn't understand that he was saying "if we admitted what this bill was really about, then it couldn't have passed" then I can't help you.
Why do you think he believed it wouldn't pass? I mean shite. It had majorities in both chambers. The problem was, if the VOTERS heard the truth, the Senators would've folded.
I mean cmon. You're being willfully obtuse.
Posted on 11/15/14 at 11:35 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
-He said Romneycare only works if they ripped off the Feds - essentially, Ted Kennedy, Mitt Romney and he conspired to steal to make it work. So, they always knew that it couldn't work in a revenue-neutral way at the Federal level because there was no one from whom to steal.
-They had to call the 40% tax on the insurance company, when in reality, it was a tax on insurance policy holders or it wouldn't have passed (He said it still works, because the tax charge added is the same as the top marginal rate). ETA: He also said that when the bills came due, the "stupid" people would blame the insurance company and exchanges instead of the administration.
-CBO had to be fooled into scoring it incorrectly -if scored correctly, it would not ahve passed (this is key because most of the Dems, Pelosi particularly, relied upon this fudging to counter Republican's correct criticisms of the costs).
- If the truth were told and it was known that this was a plan to, effectively, rob the young and healthy to pay for the healtcare of the sick and uninsured, it wouldn't have passed - the bill had to be written in a (either tortued or tortuous way - I don't want to misquote him) in order to achieve all these ends in a non-transparent way.
The insulting part (although not terribly untrue) is that he contends that the relative stupidity of the American people on basic economics was key to passing the law.
Thanks again! BTW, people that think voters are stupid are pretty low-IQ themselves, and are usually in denial about their inept ability to communicate or even comprehend what they are talking about.
Posted on 11/15/14 at 11:37 am to mmcgrath
Imagine if you worked as hard to understand a thing as you did to try not to understand a thing.
Of course if you did that, you'd have to abandon Liberal Orthodoxy, and that could be dangerous to our shared Transformational Project. So let's not do that. Playing dumb works like a charm almost every time.
Of course if you did that, you'd have to abandon Liberal Orthodoxy, and that could be dangerous to our shared Transformational Project. So let's not do that. Playing dumb works like a charm almost every time.
Posted on 11/15/14 at 11:39 am to mmcgrath
quote:
Thanks again!
No problem - there may be more - but those are the biggest ones off the top of my head that I didn't have to research - and those are just the lies - virtually everything he said was outrageous and anti-democratic - your guys should be as ashamed of him as we are of Rove and Cheney - probably more, because y'all are supposed to be the good guys, remember?
Posted on 11/15/14 at 11:40 am to mmcgrath
quote:You're right about that.
It doesn't seem like there is a lot of straightforward discussion in the media.
The media are ignoring this almost completely, save for Fox News and conservative talk radio.
Posted on 11/15/14 at 11:41 am to mmcgrath
quote:
BTW, people that think voters are stupid are pretty low-IQ themselves, and are usually in denial about their inept ability to communicate or even comprehend what they are talking about.
Even the Founding Fathers realized the public, as a whole, was stupid. That's why there were restrictions early on concerning which people could vote and which people could not. There was no guaranteed right to vote in this country at the outset. That didn't develop until the Jacksonian Era. Dr. Gruber may be a POS but he does have a point. He asserted that the only way the ACA could have passed was for politicians to lie about what was in it. They relied on the ignorance of the common voter in areas concerning economics and got away with it rather easily because the common voter does not understand (or does not care about) basic economics - especially young liberals.
Posted on 11/15/14 at 11:44 am to RollTide1987
quote:
He asserted that the only way the ACA could have passed was for politicians to lie about what was in it. They relied on the ignorance of the common voter in areas concerning economics and got away with it rather easily because the common voter does not understand (or does not care about) basic economics - especially young liberals.
But the system can't work that way - we either need to go back to the original system, relying on the legislatures of the states and the 10th Amendment, or we need to crucify gameplaying a$$holes like Gruber, Pelosi, Reid and, yes, Obama. I know we're going to need a lot of crosses if we do that, and Ds and Rs aplenty will have to be put on them, but sometimes a surgeon has to cut to cure.
Posted on 11/15/14 at 11:47 am to Ace Midnight
quote:
But the system can't work that way - we either need to go back to the original system, relying on the legislatures of the states and the 10th Amendment
This would be the ideal system. Which is why we will never revert back to the way it was. Liberals don't want individual states involved in the process. In their hearts and minds, they believe the federal government knows what is best for all 315 million citizens of the United States.
Can you imagine what would have happened to ACA if the state legislatures still picked and recalled senators? It would never have passed.
This post was edited on 11/15/14 at 11:50 am
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