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re: "Serial" Podcast Discussion Thread...SPOILERS
Posted on 11/20/14 at 10:10 pm to The Spleen
Posted on 11/20/14 at 10:10 pm to The Spleen
is anyone else gonna send them a donation? Im thinking about sending a few dollars. I have enjoyed the show so far and hope they keep it going and more importantly the next season is as interesting as this one.
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Posted on 11/20/14 at 10:32 pm to JBeam
quote:
We definitely need a criminal attorney
Im here
First off: the way that adnan's attorney was talking about how Jay lied about certain statements to the police made me think that she did have access to all of Jay's interviews
Second: if they with withheld the fact that Jay changed his story several times then that would be in violation of Adnan's due process as ruled in Brady v. Maryland
Brady basically says that the state has to turn over ANY exculpatory evidence where the evidence is material to guilt of the defendant
And the changing stories of the KEY witness in the state's case directly questions the credibility of that witness so that would certainly be exculpatory and material
This post was edited on 11/20/14 at 10:34 pm
Posted on 11/21/14 at 8:45 am to rockchlkjayhku11
quote:
it's no coincidence that all the innocent people involved in the story remember that day clearly.
-"cathy" girl remembers sketchy dude at her house being high
-other girl remembers that hae came to get food or whatever right after school
-other girls remember conversations about rides and what hae was doing after school
-adnan cant even tell us if he went to track practice or not
I'm behind in the thread. There is a ton of research on memory; we are really bad at accurately remembering things, even, and maybe especially, surrounding emotional events. We should be skeptical of the finer details of anybody's recollection.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 9:32 am to buckeye_vol
quote:
we are really bad at accurately remembering things, even, and maybe especially, surrounding emotional events.
Somewhat true, but I can more vividly remember parts of the day when I was a senior in high school(22 years ago) and one of my best friends died. There are moments that are a blur, but some of the events of that day are so vivid it's like it happened yesterday.
That said, I don't think it's far fetched to believe Adnan has a hard time remembering some of the minutiae of that day. From what we do know, it was just another mundane day up until that evening when Hae went missing. And even then, everyone has said they didn't think at the time it was that big of a deal that she was missing.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 10:00 am to The Spleen
I can barely remember days if you asked me about what I specifically did so I cannot fault him too much for that.
The only thing that makes me think Adnan did it, or at least had something to do with it, is that he has no guess or counter as to who else could have done it. He does not even seem mad at Jay. If one of my buddies made up an entire story about me killing someone and sent me to jail for life, I would not be so nonchalant about it.
As for Jay, I have no idea what his motive would have been. One idea that has been running through my head is that apparently Adnan was best friends with Jay's gf (Stephanie I believe). He told Jay to buy her a gift, etc. Someone was interviewed saying Stephanie was one of the greatest influences for Jay. My only guess, and I dont think its a sustainable one, is that maybe Jay was jealous of the friendship Adnan had with Stephanie, saw him as a threat to their relationship, and wanted him gone and this was his way of going about it. Quite a stretch, but that is just what crossed my mind.
The only thing that makes me think Adnan did it, or at least had something to do with it, is that he has no guess or counter as to who else could have done it. He does not even seem mad at Jay. If one of my buddies made up an entire story about me killing someone and sent me to jail for life, I would not be so nonchalant about it.
As for Jay, I have no idea what his motive would have been. One idea that has been running through my head is that apparently Adnan was best friends with Jay's gf (Stephanie I believe). He told Jay to buy her a gift, etc. Someone was interviewed saying Stephanie was one of the greatest influences for Jay. My only guess, and I dont think its a sustainable one, is that maybe Jay was jealous of the friendship Adnan had with Stephanie, saw him as a threat to their relationship, and wanted him gone and this was his way of going about it. Quite a stretch, but that is just what crossed my mind.
This post was edited on 11/21/14 at 10:03 am
Posted on 11/21/14 at 10:17 am to YankeeDoodle
One theory on Jay killing her is he was hooking up with Jen behind Stephanie's back and somehow Hae found out about it. Being Stephanie's best friend, she was going to tell Stephanie, but Jen and Jay confronted her before she could and things spiraled out of control and they killed her.
That story seems more plausible than the state's theory of Adnan being so upset over the break up.
That story seems more plausible than the state's theory of Adnan being so upset over the break up.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 10:24 am to The Spleen
quote:
One theory on Jay killing her is he was hooking up with Jen behind Stephanie's back and somehow Hae found out about it. Being Stephanie's best friend, she was going to tell Stephanie, but Jen and Jay confronted her before she could and things spiraled out of control and they killed her.
That is actually very possible. Makes more sense than the other theory.
It just makes no sense with Adnan just yet. He was wishy washy about asking for a ride, but that could be anything. I would still like to hear Adnan's direct thoughts on Jay. That could give some more insight. I cant remember if they hashed on it too much, but might have to go back and listen to see.
The only obvious kicker is if Adnan is a true psychopath and is really trolling everyone, which I just do not see right now.
This post was edited on 11/21/14 at 10:36 am
Posted on 11/21/14 at 12:45 pm to The Spleen
quote:
Somewhat true, but I can more vividly remember parts of the day when I was a senior in high school(22 years ago) and one of my best friends died. There are moments that are a blur, but some of the events of that day are so vivid it's like it happened yesterday.
The problem is that in many situations like this, these vivid memories are often less accurate than we believe. Not saying that is the case in your situation but the saliency of memories is not necessarily associated with the accuracy of them.
This post was edited on 11/21/14 at 1:02 pm
Posted on 11/21/14 at 12:55 pm to YankeeDoodle
quote:
I would still like to hear Adnan's direct thoughts on Jay. That could give some more insight. I cant remember if they hashed on it too much, but might have to go back and listen to see.
They dug a little into that in the "What's The Deal With Jay?" episode. Adnan downplayed their relationship, but from other accounts they were around each other a lot. He basically just said Jay was who he bought and smoked weed with. That's part of his story that doesn't make much sense given he gave him his brand new cell phone and his car. I tried to put myself back in high school though, and I guess there were a few guys that I wasn't really close to that I may have given my car to to run some errands or something. A little odd to think about as an adult, but at that age I'm not sure I would have thought twice about it. It does make me wonder though, did Adnan volunteer his car to Jay or did Jay ask to borrow it? Was Jay planning to murder Hae and setting Adnan up all along?
SK did say during the 1st trial I think that Adnan said something to Jay as he approached the stand and was admonished by the judge.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 1:01 pm to buckeye_vol
quote:
The problem is that in many situations like this, these vivid memories are often less accurate than we believe. Not saying that is the case in your situation but the saliency of memories is not necessary associated with the accuracy of them.
Probably true in my case. I guess what I meant to say is emotional events sometimes get frozen in your memory and it can make it easier to recall events on an emotional day as opposed to just regular, mundane days. I can definitely remember where I was, what I was doing, and even what I was wearing when I got the call that my friend had died, but I couldn't tell you a single thing I did any other day that week. I mean it was spring break of my senior year of high school so I was probably up to no good, but what exactly we did I'm not real sure.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 1:35 pm to The Spleen
quote:
Probably true in my case. I guess what I meant to say is emotional events sometimes get frozen in your memory and it can make it easier to recall events on an emotional day as opposed to just regular, mundane days. I can definitely remember where I was, what I was doing, and even what I was wearing when I got the call that my friend had died, but I couldn't tell you a single thing I did any other day that week. I mean it was spring break of my senior year of high school so I was probably up to no good, but what exactly we did I'm not real sure.
Sure. I think emotion increases the likelihood one will remember the event(s) of that day.
I have two problems with the lack of memory being evidence of guilt in Adnan's case because he should have had an emotional response that day (from the phone call) and should remember that day better.
1. It seems reasonable not to have had much of an emotional response given that he was extremely high. In addition, it was only a few hours after school when he last saw her. Besides not picking up her cousin and not going to the wrestling meet, a 17-year-old not being accounted for a few hours after school is not especially alarming.
2. Even if he did have an emotional response at the time of phone call, that doesn't mean all the memories that happened earlier in the day became more evident (or even later), likey just the ones related to the emotional response.
Posted on 11/21/14 at 4:19 pm to buckeye_vol
I didn't see this thread here until just today...but I have been gripped by Serial for the past month.
I thought Episode 9 really threw things off kilter. It's really becoming even more meta now, what with the real-time updates at the beginning. The Best Buy phone booth thing just seems really puzzling to me. Why would Jay make up something like that?
I think where I am now is that the prosecution definitely was faulty and there clearly was a reasonable doubt (I mean, come on...no physical evidence AND seemingly relevant players not even searched or interviewed by the police?!?!?)
However, it seems like only one or both of them are the people who did it. Why would Jay have implicated himself at all if he hadn't at least seen the body?
I generally don't buy the "psychopath trolling us all", but I will say that Adnan is extremely articulate, and thus would seem to be quite intelligent.
I really don't know what to make of it...between the timeline, the phone booth and the cell records, it seems like an unsolvable puzzle.
I thought Episode 9 really threw things off kilter. It's really becoming even more meta now, what with the real-time updates at the beginning. The Best Buy phone booth thing just seems really puzzling to me. Why would Jay make up something like that?
I think where I am now is that the prosecution definitely was faulty and there clearly was a reasonable doubt (I mean, come on...no physical evidence AND seemingly relevant players not even searched or interviewed by the police?!?!?)
However, it seems like only one or both of them are the people who did it. Why would Jay have implicated himself at all if he hadn't at least seen the body?
I generally don't buy the "psychopath trolling us all", but I will say that Adnan is extremely articulate, and thus would seem to be quite intelligent.
I really don't know what to make of it...between the timeline, the phone booth and the cell records, it seems like an unsolvable puzzle.
Posted on 11/22/14 at 3:07 pm to Big Scrub TX
Just a heads up, Slate Magazine will be releasing a special episode the Wednesday before Turkey Day. Just thought I'd let y'all know.
Posted on 11/22/14 at 6:30 pm to JBeam
Episode of Serial or of their column about Serial?
Posted on 11/22/14 at 10:44 pm to Big Scrub TX
It's Slate Magazines "Serial:Podcast about the Podcast"
Posted on 11/24/14 at 9:03 am to JBeam
quote:Looking forward to this. Got something to listen to in the deer stand Thursday morning!
Just a heads up, Slate Magazine will be releasing a special episode the Wednesday before Turkey Day. Just thought I'd let y'all know.
Posted on 11/24/14 at 12:51 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
I think where I am now is that the prosecution definitely was faulty and there clearly was a reasonable doubt (I mean, come on...no physical evidence AND seemingly relevant players not even searched or interviewed by the police?!?!?)
That's been my feeling from the start, and it is extremely disheartening to see the police and prosecution so hellbent on getting an arrest and conviction, that they ignore evidence that could exonerate their main suspect. I mean, I know it happens all the time, but it makes our criminal justice system look like a mockery.
Posted on 11/24/14 at 12:51 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
I think where I am now is that the prosecution definitely was faulty and there clearly was a reasonable doubt (I mean, come on...no physical evidence AND seemingly relevant players not even searched or interviewed by the police?!?!?)
That's been my feeling from the start, and it is extremely disheartening to see the police and prosecution so hellbent on getting an arrest and conviction, that they ignore evidence that could exonerate their main suspect. I mean, I know it happens all the time, but it makes our criminal justice system look like a mockery.
Posted on 11/27/14 at 10:54 pm to The Spleen
Posted on 11/28/14 at 12:53 am to The Spleen
quote:That's because to a certain degree our justice system is a joke.
That's been my feeling from the start, and it is extremely disheartening to see the police and prosecution so hellbent on getting an arrest and conviction, that they ignore evidence that could exonerate their main suspect. I mean, I know it happens all the time, but it makes our criminal justice system look like a mockery.
I'm about to listen to the Slate bonus podcast again.
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