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re: How were German armored divisions so much more elite than their US counterparts
Posted on 10/24/14 at 8:56 pm to HeadChange
Posted on 10/24/14 at 8:56 pm to HeadChange
The military channel did a best tanks in history episode.
The surprise winner was the Russian t-34. Over the German tigers and easily better than the Sherman.
Was it really that superior? Was it really such an advantage?
The surprise winner was the Russian t-34. Over the German tigers and easily better than the Sherman.
Was it really that superior? Was it really such an advantage?
0
Posted on 10/24/14 at 8:57 pm to geauxtigers87
quote:
It took us breaking jn25 to do that though.
That's all a part of warfare. The Japanese dealt us a crippling blow in the Pacific at Pearl Harbor. Six months later we were on the offensive.
Posted on 10/24/14 at 8:58 pm to HeadChange
quote:
WWII fascinates me but I am by no means an expert, nor a history buff in general. But if Hitler was able to just keep an eye on the Eastern front while not advancing, and focusing his real efforts on Europe and the pain in the arse Britain (before we joined), could he have taken Europe? And then from there, he could then focus his military might on the Eastern and start invading Russia? And by that time, with little resistance on the European side, maybe they could have developed some more advanced weaponry?
I am one of the few people in the world that believe Stalin would have attacked Hitler had Hitler not attacked first. The two leaders just hated each other too much.
I do not think Hitler could have dominated all of Europe but I do think Russia could have. I do not feel America and Britain saved Europe from Germany, they saved Europe from Russia.
ETA: I am assuming Hitler still delays taking Moscow in this scenario. If Hitler takes Moscow when he should have, who knows.
This post was edited on 10/24/14 at 9:02 pm
Posted on 10/24/14 at 8:58 pm to Henry Jones Jr
quote:
German engineering was far superior.
What a profound nugget of knowledge
Posted on 10/24/14 at 9:00 pm to Restomod
the T-34 was a diesel powered tank that could handle all sorts of terrain, it had sloped armor and was quite advanced for its time....just didnt normally come with a radio...
Posted on 10/24/14 at 9:04 pm to Restomod
The Germans had the tanks but they had no fuel to run them and no air force to protect them by late 44-1945
The establishment of the 15th airforce really fricked Germany. They were getting it from the 8th and the brits one way and from Italy by the 15th
The establishment of the 15th airforce really fricked Germany. They were getting it from the 8th and the brits one way and from Italy by the 15th
This post was edited on 10/24/14 at 9:05 pm
Posted on 10/24/14 at 9:05 pm to Henry Jones Jr
watch battle of the bulge
they were running over the american tank divisions, and then diesel became scarce and their tanks became useless.
"burn it, Burn it all"
sincerely,
Henry Fonda
they were running over the american tank divisions, and then diesel became scarce and their tanks became useless.
"burn it, Burn it all"
sincerely,
Henry Fonda
Posted on 10/24/14 at 9:07 pm to vl100butch
As you know, the T-34 came in two varieties, one with 76mm main gun and in mid 1944, with a new turret and an 85mm gun.
Both great tanks and many argue the best of WW2. BUT, the transmissions of these tanks were always a bit of a problem. Lots of T34 breakdowns due to transmission problems. Tank crews were very uncomfy in the cramped crew space and the transmission problems were the main weaknesses, unless a particular T34 had no radio, in which case add that as a weakness.
Both great tanks and many argue the best of WW2. BUT, the transmissions of these tanks were always a bit of a problem. Lots of T34 breakdowns due to transmission problems. Tank crews were very uncomfy in the cramped crew space and the transmission problems were the main weaknesses, unless a particular T34 had no radio, in which case add that as a weakness.
Posted on 10/24/14 at 9:10 pm to KosmoCramer
I can't stop staring.
Posted on 10/24/14 at 9:14 pm to Champagne
Why the frick has Darth not posted yet?
Posted on 10/24/14 at 9:17 pm to stlslick
quote:
watch battle of the bulge
Don't. That movie is so historically inaccurate Eisenhower called a press conference to denounce the film.
This post was edited on 10/24/14 at 9:21 pm
Posted on 10/24/14 at 9:19 pm to Henry Jones Jr
Erwin Rommel literally wrote the book on armored warfare and Heinz Guderian was perhaps the finest armored commander on either side.
The early German Mark III and IV were solid tanks but tactics and sub pat opponets like early Russian, Britain and France built the hype.
The Tiger and King Tiger and to a lesser degree the Panther tanks were legit. The 88 gun could hit from a distance and the armor could take some real abuse and hold up. Germany just couldn't produce them in quantities to win the war.
The early German Mark III and IV were solid tanks but tactics and sub pat opponets like early Russian, Britain and France built the hype.
The Tiger and King Tiger and to a lesser degree the Panther tanks were legit. The 88 gun could hit from a distance and the armor could take some real abuse and hold up. Germany just couldn't produce them in quantities to win the war.
Posted on 10/24/14 at 9:20 pm to RollTide1987
quote:
Don't. That movie is so historically inaccurate Eisenhower even came out to protest against it.
It's a good movie, Dwight needed to lighten up, it was never considered a biography of the waR.
Posted on 10/24/14 at 9:20 pm to Patrick_Bateman
"The artillery was my strongest tool. Often it was my only reserve .... I repeatedly said it was more a matter of the infantry supporting the artillery than the artillery supporting the infantry.... I wish I knew the countless times that positions were taken or held due solely to TOT's ...."
Major General R. 0. Barton
Commanding US 4th Infantry Division World War II
"The speed, accuracy and devastating power of American Artillery won confidence and admiration from the troops it supported and inspired fear and respect in their enemy."
Gen Dwight D. Eisenhower
"In many situations that seemed desperate, the artillery has been a most vital factor."
Gen Douglas MacArthur
"I do not have to tell you who won the war. You know, the artillery did."
Gen George S. Patton
I thought I would but some perspective on all this tanker talk.
Major General R. 0. Barton
Commanding US 4th Infantry Division World War II
"The speed, accuracy and devastating power of American Artillery won confidence and admiration from the troops it supported and inspired fear and respect in their enemy."
Gen Dwight D. Eisenhower
"In many situations that seemed desperate, the artillery has been a most vital factor."
Gen Douglas MacArthur
"I do not have to tell you who won the war. You know, the artillery did."
Gen George S. Patton
I thought I would but some perspective on all this tanker talk.
Posted on 10/24/14 at 9:21 pm to stlslick
quote:
it was never considered a biography of the waR.
This is exactly why he shouldn't watch Battle of the Bulge to find out what WWII tank warfare was like.
Posted on 10/24/14 at 9:22 pm to OleWar
Proximity fuse ftw
Posted on 10/24/14 at 9:23 pm to AbuTheMonkey
quote:
1. We were also fighting a two-front war, and a very large chunk of our service was confronting another vicious, large, motivated, and heavily armed enemy halfway across the world (by ourselves, by the way)
2. The absolute advantage we and the British had in naval power from early 1942 onward
3. Logistics: we were both supplying the British and Soviets and choking out the Germans - real students of war understand the importance of logistics. Operations drive logistics, and logistics drive operations
4. Manpower: we legions upon legions upon legions of reserves waiting to go after the Wehrmacht if need be waiting back in the States. We had an active force of almost 15 million, and only 1 million or so were ever in duty at one time in the ETO
See these points are where I think people understand that it truly was a global war. One can argue that a lot of Japanese resources were tied down in trying to subdue China. It didn't help that they got hammered by the Russians either.
It truly was every great power fighting every other great power. The great Naval and Marine battles were in the Pacific, whereas the great land and air battles were fought in Europe.
Like I mentioned. There never was a simple "1 vs 1, USA vs Nazi Germany, throw everything at each other" war that appear to grace our media screens.
Don't get me wrong though. I love movies and series like Saving Private Ryan and Band of Brothers, and I'm not trying to diminish their sacrifice or their role in the war. Hell, if they hadn't been there most of Western Europe probably would have fallen under the Soviet block.
This post was edited on 10/24/14 at 9:25 pm
Posted on 10/24/14 at 9:25 pm to theGarnetWay
The Russians didn't jump in on the Japanese until the twlight of the war. They just wanted a seat at the table at that point.
Posted on 10/24/14 at 9:26 pm to foshizzle
quote:
Why the frick has Darth not posted yet?
Probably busy getting patched over
Posted on 10/24/14 at 9:30 pm to foshizzle
quote:
Why the frick has Darth not posted yet?
I thought he and his MC got into gunfight with cops out in Cali.
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