- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
This Slate Abortion Article is Full of Interesting
Posted on 10/13/14 at 11:14 pm
Posted on 10/13/14 at 11:14 pm
Slate Article
1. Abortion Generally.
since we can't win based on our ideas, we will just speak more loudly than others to "win" the argument
opposing viewpoints have no place in their version of society. you either get in line, get prosecuted, or get drowned out
oh so it's OK for you to do this, but if the other side does it, then there is a problem? that's fresh (and ironic considering the next arguments)
at what point do these people have to bear responsibility for their actions? having and raising children is literally one of the most fundamental aspects of being human. and having and raising children is not some secret formula or magic. if you want to avoid children, then you should avoid having sexual intercourse.
i'm pro-choice in terms of government policy, but i believe abortion is clearly morally wrong. that's where the discussion should begin
we can ignore the biological-philosophical debate about when "life" begins (the murder debate) and establish that abortion = immoral
2. The "Hypocrisy" of the Conservative View.
people among a variety of related groups (liberals, progressives, SJWs, etc...we will call them...believers) love to point out how their views are correct because they are so nuanced. this, ironically, allows them to even shed generic labels.
so what happens when people on the opposing side display a nuanced view? it's hypocrisy
from a purely logic standpoint, this is true. i have called this something similar to the Akin problem, because this exact argument is what led him to make his fricktarded comments in 2012. however, the only true hypocrisy is that of the true believers rejecting a nuanced view. a "nuanced" view means you reject hard and fast rules to have a shifting set of policy preferences/decisions. those positions, too, are untenable.
similarly, this is exactly why, so many americans still believe in absolute rejection of abortion.
3. Feminist Argument that Ignores Biology.
the author, as well as most pro-abortionists, reject biology because it is inherently unfair. as the article states:
this is not expected, nor has it been expected of male humans since we first emerged on earth. this is a reason why we evolved. this is a biological fact and a fundamental backbone of why humans evolved the way we have. in terms of economics, sex is much more expensive to women than it is to men.
instead of molding behavior and policy to account for these biological differences, the true believers ignore science
again, we ignore reality. if you make poor/risy decisions, the effects of those decisions should be born by that person...again ignoring reality
i don't even need to comment on this nonsense. if the author is religious, then she will be going to an assorted hell for her behavior. if the author rejects religion for science (as i expect her to do), then she's just talking like a crazy person
in total, this article sums up the glaring hypocrisies and immorality of the stance of the modern liberal/progressive re: abortion
and before i get called "right wing", remember that i am pro choice in terms of government policy and, for the ignorant true believers reading this OP, this is a hotly debated topic in the libertarian movement.
1. Abortion Generally.
quote:
fact any woman who’s reading this piece and has had an abortion, or any man who has supported one, should go in the comments section and do the same thing, until there are so many accounts that the statement loses its shock value.
since we can't win based on our ideas, we will just speak more loudly than others to "win" the argument
opposing viewpoints have no place in their version of society. you either get in line, get prosecuted, or get drowned out
quote:
The reason we’re not, according to Pollitt, is that we have all essentially been brainwashed by a small minority of pro-life activists. Only 7 to 20 percent of Americans tell pollsters they want to totally ban abortion, but that loud minority has beaten the rest of us into submission with their fetus posters and their absolutism and their infiltration of American politics.
oh so it's OK for you to do this, but if the other side does it, then there is a problem? that's fresh (and ironic considering the next arguments)
quote:
They are making a reasonable and even admirable decision that they can’t raise a child at the moment. Is that so hard to say?
at what point do these people have to bear responsibility for their actions? having and raising children is literally one of the most fundamental aspects of being human. and having and raising children is not some secret formula or magic. if you want to avoid children, then you should avoid having sexual intercourse.
i'm pro-choice in terms of government policy, but i believe abortion is clearly morally wrong. that's where the discussion should begin
we can ignore the biological-philosophical debate about when "life" begins (the murder debate) and establish that abortion = immoral
2. The "Hypocrisy" of the Conservative View.
people among a variety of related groups (liberals, progressives, SJWs, etc...we will call them...believers) love to point out how their views are correct because they are so nuanced. this, ironically, allows them to even shed generic labels.
so what happens when people on the opposing side display a nuanced view? it's hypocrisy
quote:
Pollitt spends significant energy dissecting the pro-life side’s contradictions. This largely involves explaining how the concept of personhood, when applied to a fetus, makes very little sense. She cites one poll for example showing that 38 percent of people say abortion is as “bad as killing a person already born.” But in the same poll 84 percent say it’s fine to save the life of a mother. If you really think about it, this position is untenable.
from a purely logic standpoint, this is true. i have called this something similar to the Akin problem, because this exact argument is what led him to make his fricktarded comments in 2012. however, the only true hypocrisy is that of the true believers rejecting a nuanced view. a "nuanced" view means you reject hard and fast rules to have a shifting set of policy preferences/decisions. those positions, too, are untenable.
similarly, this is exactly why, so many americans still believe in absolute rejection of abortion.
3. Feminist Argument that Ignores Biology.
the author, as well as most pro-abortionists, reject biology because it is inherently unfair. as the article states:
quote:
Pollitt tests the logic of this position in many ways. She uses the simple principle advocated by U.K. feminist writer Caitlin Moran: “And are the men doing this, as well?” The answer there is, of course not. We would never expect a man to drop everything and accept a life of “dimmed hope” because of a single ejaculation.
this is not expected, nor has it been expected of male humans since we first emerged on earth. this is a reason why we evolved. this is a biological fact and a fundamental backbone of why humans evolved the way we have. in terms of economics, sex is much more expensive to women than it is to men.
instead of molding behavior and policy to account for these biological differences, the true believers ignore science
quote:
If the pro-choice side wants to get some moral ground back, it could advocate for a more equal kind of family planning. Right now, college educated women have babies when they are ready. They wait until they have a degree and they are usually married. Poor women, meanwhile, are what Isabel Sawhill, in her new book Generation Unbound, calls “drifters,” meaning they drift into parenthood without thinking about it that much. The result, argues Sawhill, is a new generation of women who are struggling and children who are growing up in poverty.
again, we ignore reality. if you make poor/risy decisions, the effects of those decisions should be born by that person...again ignoring reality
quote:
Several years after I had the abortion, I had a third child. Part of me thinks the shadow aborted child stayed with me and created a space for the last one to be born.
i don't even need to comment on this nonsense. if the author is religious, then she will be going to an assorted hell for her behavior. if the author rejects religion for science (as i expect her to do), then she's just talking like a crazy person
in total, this article sums up the glaring hypocrisies and immorality of the stance of the modern liberal/progressive re: abortion
and before i get called "right wing", remember that i am pro choice in terms of government policy and, for the ignorant true believers reading this OP, this is a hotly debated topic in the libertarian movement.
This post was edited on 10/13/14 at 11:27 pm
Posted on 10/13/14 at 11:19 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
3. Feminist Argument that Ignores Biology.
Posted on 10/13/14 at 11:22 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Having an abortion left me with a sense of what a great power it is to be able to give life but also a sense that I can trust myself to use it carefully.
What a disgusting human being.
Posted on 10/13/14 at 11:26 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:Why should behavior have to be molded? The frick do I care what humans "evolved" to do? If contraception and abortifacents allow women to achieve parity with men in terms of low-cost sex, then who is demanding who "ignore science?"
in terms of economics, sex is much more expensive to women than it is to men.
instead of molding behavior and policy to account for these biological differences, the true believers ignore science
LINK
This post was edited on 10/13/14 at 11:27 pm
Posted on 10/13/14 at 11:29 pm to Iosh
quote:
Why should behavior have to be molded?
because our actions have consequences
quote:
The frick do I care what humans "evolved" to do?
it's not like we evolved and then that's it and we're left with no shaping from this biological journey
ignoring what effects evolution leaves humans with today is ignoring reality (and science, to borrow a leftist argument)
quote:
If contraception and abortifacents allow women to achieve parity with men in terms of low-cost sex, then who is demanding who "ignore science?"
well if we are to ignore the hypocrisy written of in the article, then we must mold policy to make every human equal to every other human
the Harrison Bergeron argument
Posted on 10/13/14 at 11:32 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
at what point do these people have to bear responsibility for their actions?
At what point is it Big Government's responsibility to compel people to bear responsibility for their actions in the manner that Big Government sees fit?
If we believe the pro-lifers - abortion is murder. Its also pre-meditated. That means in many states it would be punishable by death if you consider it murder. Seems like an awful intrusion of government to tell a woman she must bring a pregnancy to term or be executed, don't you think?
This post was edited on 10/13/14 at 11:34 pm
Posted on 10/13/14 at 11:34 pm to SpidermanTUba
quote:
At what point is it Big Government's responsibility to compel people to bear responsibility for their actions in the manner that Big Government sees fit?
that's in a completely different universe than what i asked, and to answer you, i don't care because the premise assumes a completely immoral position.
Posted on 10/13/14 at 11:36 pm to SpidermanTUba
quote:
Seems like an awful intrusion of government to tell a woman she must bring a pregnancy to term or be executed, don't you think?
a. she can give the baby up for adoption if she doesn't want to invest personal resources in raising it
b. unless she was raped, she had a choice and the costs were clear. she made a cost-benefit analysis and chose to engage in sex. i'm not questioning her decision, but she shouldn't be able to weasel out of it b/c it didn't work out in her favor. that's not how life works. you didn't support bailing out the big banks, did you? i didn't for the exact same reasoning
Posted on 10/13/14 at 11:37 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:It's one thing to ignore them, it's another thing to assert that those effects cannot be altered or overridden by medical technology because That's Unnatural.
it's not like we evolved and then that's it and we're left with no shaping from this biological journey
ignoring what effects evolution leaves humans with today is ignoring reality
Yes, before the 1960s, sex was a much riskier and higher-cost proposition for women. Now it's not, because science. The problem is... what? I don't see one. Not unless you're already predisposed towards seeing abortion or birth control as an inherent negative. Which, okay, but make that case directly, don't dance around it with some "uh bluh evolution" bullshite that is ultimately just begging the question. Because "women getting pregnant is the natural order of things" is a much shittier case than "the fetus is a person."
This post was edited on 10/13/14 at 11:38 pm
Posted on 10/13/14 at 11:43 pm to Iosh
quote:
it's another thing to assert that those effects cannot be altered or overridden by medical technology because That's Unnatural.
nobody is claiming that it's impossible to behave counter to our evolutionary instincts
quote:
. Not unless you're already predisposed towards seeing abortion or birth control as an inherent negative.
it's certainly immoral. even ignoring the "life" argument. it's never a good policy to allow people to welch on bad bets (while allowing them to benefit from good bets)
along these lines, it is clearly not immoral if the pregnancy occurs due to behavior outside of the choices of the women (ie, rape...i consider molesting a young girl rape, so i don't really bring up the "incest" argument).
but, the "life" argument begins to have merit once fertilization occurs. i have no problem with the MAP and similar methods that prevent fertilization. once you have a biological being with differing DNA from the parents involved, you're walking a fine line. while we may not all agree that there is a point where that being becomes a human being, we all should agree that there is a point.
that's why this is a tough issues that divides people. the problem is that the "life" argument seems to be molded by individuals based on how they see the "responsibility" argument.
Posted on 10/13/14 at 11:45 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Feminist Argument that Ignores Biology.
ALL feminist arguments ignore biology
Posted on 10/13/14 at 11:45 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
quote:
Seems like an awful intrusion of government to tell a woman she must bring a pregnancy to term or be executed, don't you think?
a. she can give the baby up for adoption if she doesn't want to invest personal resources in raising it
Are you seriously unaware that giving up a baby for adoption requires bringing the baby to term?
quote:
b. unless she was raped, she had a choice and the costs were clear.
So is it not murder if she was raped? That's awfully complicated.
quote:
she made a cost-benefit analysis and chose to engage in sex.
I feel really sorry for your wife or girlfriend.
quote:
you didn't support bailing out the big banks, did you?
I did, actually. I like my bank account. What I don't support is the failure to criminal punish their executives and the fact they are allowed to remain just as big, even bigger.
EDIT - I should say or, as just doing one of those two things would have much more than half the effect of both.
This post was edited on 10/13/14 at 11:50 pm
Posted on 10/13/14 at 11:48 pm to FightinTigersDammit
quote:
ALL feminist arguments ignore biology
Yeah, right. Because clearly biology dictates that men should be allowed to go shirtless in public while women should not. Women, clearly, have no biological need to take their shirts off, while men with young infants are burdened with nursing.
Posted on 10/13/14 at 11:50 pm to SpidermanTUba
quote:
Are you seriously unaware that giving up a baby for adoption requires bringing the baby to term?
nope. but i understand every time i have sexual intercourse, a baby may be created. i've passed up sex with girls i didn't want to possibly end up raising a kid with were offering. it's called personal responsibility
quote:
So is it not murder if she was raped? That's awfully complicated.
you just posted a response to an argument that i didn't make.
you're just posting from a list of auto-abortion responses that, funny enough, the author of the article in the OP was pushing.
quote:
I feel really sorry for your wife or girlfriend.
why would you? because i believe in good decision making? would you feel better if they were irrational?
quote:
I did, actually. I like my bank account. What I don't support is the failure to criminal punish their executives and the fact they are allowed to remain just as big, even bigger.
so you don't mind paying for abortions, but you wish those who engage in the behavior were criminally prosecuted?
Posted on 10/13/14 at 11:51 pm to SpidermanTUba
quote:
Because clearly biology dictates that men should be allowed to go shirtless in public while women should not.
i really do think you have a wheel that you randomly select topics of which you post responses
quote:
Women, clearly, have no biological need to take their shirts off, while men with young infants are burdened with nursing.
you do realize that you're not really doing anything but strengthening his point that
quote:
ALL feminist arguments ignore biology
right?
unless you want to argue that women and men have the same sexual stimuli and that men and women react the same visually to sexual stimuli
This post was edited on 10/13/14 at 11:52 pm
Posted on 10/13/14 at 11:53 pm to SlowFlowPro
Interestingly, I just learned today that the National Abortion Federation endorses intracardiac potassium chloride injections to cause feticide (their words). Imagine that - a huge needle is stuck into the heart to stop it from beating AFTER it's delivered.
2014 NAF Clinical Practice Guidelines
That's the same 'barbaric' cocktail given IV for lethal injections by the way.
2014 NAF Clinical Practice Guidelines
That's the same 'barbaric' cocktail given IV for lethal injections by the way.
Posted on 10/13/14 at 11:56 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
it's called personal responsibility
Its interesting how you think its your personal responsibility to force women to bring pregnancies to term against their will.
quote:
you just posted a response to an argument that i didn't make.
What is your argument? That abortion should be illegal because its their own damn fault unless they are raped and if they are raped........ wa?
Posted on 10/13/14 at 11:56 pm to Crimson
well trying to discuss a policy by arguing extremism on either side isn't really going to be very productive
Posted on 10/13/14 at 11:56 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
unless you want to argue that women and men have the same sexual stimuli and that men and women react the same visually to sexual stimuli
Dude wtf does that even have to do with what I am saying?
This post was edited on 10/13/14 at 11:57 pm
Posted on 10/13/14 at 11:57 pm to SpidermanTUba
quote:
What is your argument? That abortion should be illegal
nope i clearly said i'm pro choice in terms of policy
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News